Coming to you from the studios at the Illinois rock and roll museum on route 66. It's the rock and roll Chicago podcast Hey everybody, it's Ray the roadie and this is Hollywood Mike coming to you. No, I'm sorry live I know and I really recorded kind of yeah, we are alive when we do it.

We're alive when we do it We do it. That's a good thing that we're alive when we do it. That's right.

Yeah still above ground Yes, I guess what I just did. What'd you do? I don't know if I can admit this to my Chicago crowd Okay, although we have a lot of people around the world that listen to this. Yes.

Yeah, India being our number two Yeah, that's that still floors me to this day. India is in our number two market That's pretty pretty crazy. But um, I was in Green Bay, Wisconsin Today for yeah, really? Yeah for the past couple days.

Okay, I'm doing some work Excuse me doing some work there might for my day job and we actually had the opportunity to go and have lunch at Lambeau Field Really and I've never done that before Wow and as a Bears fan, I'm like, yeah, this is You better splash me with some holy water first and the whole before going there I was gonna say you take a scalding shower, but you know what I get I get it Yeah, what a cool freakin place that is They they the the Packers actually practice right there on the field at Lambeau Field really They don't have their own separate practice facility or anything like that They practice right there Wow, and you hear all the all the fact that it's a very industrial town, you know it's it's you know, it's just you know paper mills and meatpacking plants and all that kinds of stuff around there and the noon whistle blows and Everybody comes out of the buildings and stuff with their lunch bags and they go over and they watch the Packers practice No kidding in the afternoon, which I thought was the coolest thing in the world Well, all the bars and restaurants and Lambeau Field are open all the shops are open It becomes like this giant shopping mall and gathering place in Green Bay Well, well the the fans in Green Bay are owners of one team. They own own shares. Yeah, right exactly shares in the team and I always heard there was a Chicago Bears bar across the street from Lambeau, but I've never had that confirmed.

I've I didn't see that No, I'd assume that it would probably be the shittiest looking building in town probably But you know, I thought I totally thought that was cool and and you know, and actually I I Wanted to go because of a fellow by the by the name of Matt Orzek who I have known Since got fourth grade. So that makes me about 10 years old or so. Mm-hmm His son Matt Orzek jr. Is the long snapper for the oh, no kidding.

All that's very cool He was actually with the he was with the Rams a couple seasons and he has a Super Bowl ring with the Rams Very nice. And this is his first year with the Packers. He's there.

He's their long snapper So it was kind of cool to go there and cool. Sounds like a great team practice No, you know, it's funny because before you got here I was saying how great clay Matthews is it a cappella? clay Matthews Wait, wasn't he former Green Bay? There was a lot of members of the Packers So who was that talking by the way, you know, well, I don't know I was gonna say, you know what? I'm just gonna hand it off to you. Why don't you introduce the band? It is white rabbit object And it's and it's spelled if you if you look what is it wh t period rbb rbb t obj obj Why so so it really has it's mostly to do with the fact that this started like this was gonna be our secret Okay, because we were both in we both had like these identities in like the Chicago music scene Okay, because we were in we were in our own bands, right? Right, right And so the thought process was gonna be secret band secret bands.

So so the band name had to be secret We are the rabbits. We're Frank and River rabbit And so, you know became like okay So this white rabbit object was kind of like this secret code, right? And if you knew the code then you'd knew who the band was potentially, right, right So that's kind of where it all started now. There is this That's not the first time that white rabbit object has been used in that's true entertainment Really? No, it absolutely is not and if you google the name you get some pretty interesting websites that mom well, the one that we're referring to is When Newman I call him Newman his name is not Newman.

He's the guy in Jurassic Park, you know the guy right, right, right I mean Newman, it's yeah, it's just Newman. No, no, it's Newman. Exactly.

Yes. You got it. He types in wh t rbb t obj Into the computer in Jurassic Park and that's what lets all the dinosaurs out.

That's what makes all the dinosaurs go crazy Wow Really? Yeah, we are really let's have it out of the bag here. There's an interesting Samuel L. Jackson who's like then the the secondary computer guy, right? Right, right He has this he does this line where he goes you see this right right here This is the kicker what rabbit object whatever that did it did it all so Wow Okay. So now we know Object history lesson.

Yeah, and then last name your last name is rabbit. We're the rabbits But nuts is it spelled like rabbit no, it's it's it's an old Scottish name. It's r a b b i t t e Okay, and it pronounced rabbit not repeat or what we pronounce a rabbit Okay.

No interesting. Yeah, it's pretty very so obviously they are a married couple. Yes.

Yes. They are a married couple right and and they obviously Did not abide by the taboo of not getting involved in musical adventures with your spouse We are never playing music together ever so we're not doing it so actually it was more like it was more unspoken really we never Really? That is true. We never really said it out loud But there was an unspoken rule that we were like your thing is your thing.

I think it's my thing So so how long were you together? And I guess how long have you been together? And how long have you been married? We've been together for Six and a half almost six and a half years. We've been married for five. Okay years.

Yeah, okay So at what point in time did you decide? Yeah, you know what? We're just gonna do this. It didn't take very long We were married September 2018 and I think it was January of 2019 I came home and he was working on a song for another project and My old band, yes for his old band and In my opinion, he was playing the bass line wrong. I was like, what are you doing? I'm literally I'm sitting I've got the I've got garage band up on the on the Mac and I'm laying down all the tracks So that the band can hear how the song is gonna go, right? I'm not a vocalist so but I'm laying down all the music and I'm so that the band, you know It's just a roadmap, right? It's the easiest way to bring it to a band is to give them an actual this is what this song sounds like You know if you got this a complete idea, right, right so that's what I'm doing and I'm laying down all the tracks and I'm laying I laid the guitar down and I got you know, the drum tracks are all in and then in programs and then I start laying down the bass line and She walks in and from the other side of our loft in the city.

I Hear the door close and then I hear her yell you're doing that bass riff wrong I Wrote it. So how can it be wrong, right? Like this is coming from my imagination And so and I said fine, okay number two How would you do it and I handed her the bass and she goes this is what I would do and I went oh, yeah That's better So something tells me it wasn't that cordial. Oh, no We don't yeah, no, we're yeah, we're pretty easy about it and then so she's I think before you handed me the business It pour me a glass of wine and then I'll show you And then much more wine ensued and I was like, well, do you have lyrics and Two weeks later that song was on 101 KQX Was that your song or was it your previous band? So he wrote it so but we did so what happened was is that I took we took that What I laid down as a roadmap and we turned that into the song.

Okay, and it became unlucky 13 so so we had so she had River asked me if I had lyrics and I said well I've got some of the lyrics and I don't have a title for the song yet, but the song was about bad luck okay, basically, that's what the song was about and and River Added some lines changed some lines. She goes can I sing it and I said sure you want to give it a try? and so we laid down the track and Then the next so we then had that white rabbit object then so we had a song without a band name, right? so then we needed a band name so then we came up with the white rabbit object and So when you'd been wanting to use that I'd been Waiting for the right moment to use that is true No, I so so your band didn't get that song my band didn't get that song My band doesn't exist anymore. So unfortunately what band was it? So that was a band I was in for a long time called one ping only and that was That was a lot of fun.

We were we had a guest doing it. We did it for Eight nine years together, you know for four guys to hang out for that long in a band situation. That's pretty good, right? no, we were pretty happy with the longevity of it and But then when this thing started and this thing started taking off it was like Bye guys.

Yeah. Yeah, right and worse and so this has been a lot more fun actually So this has been the most fun that I've ever had in music, right? And what was that song that you guys wrote that first time? So that was a song that you can't find now. Okay, we can't find it anymore It was a song called unlucky 13.

We still play it sometimes at gigs Yeah, we do and it ends up on there. It ends up on the radio in a matter of weeks Wow, how did that happen? I'd sent it to James Van Osdell. Oh, yeah Thank you X and then it was played and JVO said I love this.

I'm going to play it Yeah, and we're sitting back laughing because half of the tracks in the song are like garage band instruments that we You know But it was good. It was fun. That was that was how the whole thing Started and since then we've written quite a bit more as you guys know Yeah, and we're we're very excited so yeah, it was it really was just And then it started off with this whole idea that we were gonna be like Oh, we're gonna do a single every now and again.

Mm-hmm, and we did another one we lay down a track called silence, which you can actually find on like Spotify because I have no control over that song whatsoever I'm no longer responsible for that song a small label in the UK picked it up and they put it on a compilation album and So then that was the next kind of like signal to us It was kind of like they were like, oh man, this is like stripped-down Florence in the machine This is really cool. And I was like, okay, and so they they have that song now and I you know, but that was I think the first clue kind of that was like maybe there is something a little bit more here than just like a One-off single every you know every once in a while when we feel like it so right, right so before we get into all the music in the whole bit, let's back up just a second because I I went all over your the website and for stuff I Gotta say you're unbelievably talented me. Yeah, you are.

Oh, thank you Playing guitar or play bass play piano Thank you very much when did the when did the whole thing start for you when how old were you where were you what was The first instrument when did the whole thing start for you say? Yeah, I want to do this. I Remember being quite young Nobody my family is musical, but I've always I remember being like a little kid and just like I would walk around the house Whistling the not whistling because I can't whistle actually The like Andy Griffith theme song as a kid and just always feeling a pull to music so I Wanted to play the flute Originally, don't ask me why I don't know And Jethro Tull is at the very top of my list No, but I grew up with parents who both consumed music very different types of music Heavily and so I started playing piano when I was six and then when I was taking lessons kid like I would sing as I would play in my my vocal teacher or my piano teacher would Say that you should take voice lessons to and just kind of you know sure go with simultaneously do it. Yeah, right And then I played Carnegie Hall when I was eight so then that that in my mind is that all I mean Sundance Film Festival when I got a little older I played Cavern Club for International Beatles Week in Liverpool I've been I've this has been my life.

I I can't imagine like I can't even pinpoint a specific moment for you When I like clicked for me that like music was gonna be the thing that I did Because it's just always the thing that I did and so it's always had this sort of Resonance in my life, and it's always sort of like impacted everything else that I that I do yeah, so it's It's kind of like my my life force. Have you always been in the Chicagoland area? For most of my life. Okay.

Yes, all right. We're about Chicago proper okay, yeah up north okay at some point in time I wasn't born here in the States But yes moved here when I was about I Think I was five okay moved here. So she moves here when she's five and by the time she's eight.

She's playing Carnegie Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's you know. It's I was born here and never played there Yeah, it was it was very surreal too because like that was three months before 9-eleven that I played there and Like as a kid seeing like New York for the first time and realizing that this is this place where people I mean And I'm a kid that's about to go play Carnegie Hall and all of a sudden like the American dream is like a very real Sure thing absolutely, and then this other thing happens months later, and it's like What in the world yeah like it? I think that experience of playing there made that whole It just made it very so much more surreal What was the Carnegie Hall gig so I performed with a performing arts group? That's essentially you had to audition for and there were 30 piano players and four Vocalists and I was one of the four okay vocalists that sang at this it was all classical music.

It was really beautiful I will have to find a picture and send it to you guys. It's very wild Yeah, obviously not something that you did by participating in your local elementary school No, no, I was in talent show every year though for sure I was like can I dance and can I sing and can I play piano? I was I was one of those kids growing up like I was like just let me Let me show you what I got right you really needed the keytar. I did need a keytar I still need a keytar You know I know somebody that has a keytar and every time he shows up with it everybody rolls their eyes and goes Oh my god.

He's got a keytar, and then he plays the keytar, and it was like holy shit. He's got a keytar Well first of all I don't have a keytar because they're very heavy Super heavy instrument yeah, they are so I would need to like go start weightlifting I don't know how Herbie Hancock does it like I saw I saw him on stage We saw him on stage in Atlanta a few years ago, and he gets his keytar, and he's he's older now Yeah, and he's moving around on that stage. I'm like you are in way better shape than me Well, you know the the young man that I'm thinking of that plays this unoccasionally He's got I mean.

He's got the retro 1980s keytar where it's white, and it's made of plastic Oh, yeah, shaped like partially triangular in the whole bit Yeah, yeah, it's I mean It's it's what you think of when you think of the keytar not them yeah, not just a keyboard hanging around your neck So it's actually a little bit lighter weight, but I could totally see you playing that so all right well So I mean when did you come in the picture? Not that it even matters at this point No, I never Well, thanks for coming. Yeah, we're just gonna talk to her now. It's totally cool.

I would I'm so grateful for you all right. Do you remember where you parked the car is that all we? Show for no sir no so no so really Frank When did it all kind of start for you and kind of take us down that journey? so So you know it's interesting because we were we were in here looking at the great migration and stuff, so I born in New Orleans and my my parents At a relatively you know like teenage years right ended up coming up here to Chicago. We ended up relocating so right right um But being down there The blues music was just kind of everywhere, and I my dad especially was very very very much into the blues right so So I think you know that kind of got locked in my head so a lot of other kids were listening to I don't know Eddie Van Halen and things like that And I'm listening to Muddy Waters and BB King and BB King still my favorite most favorite guitar player of all time right you know so So that was kind of like the introduction of where the music was coming from and then when we got up to Chicago I turned 13 years old and And my dad came home with with a guitar, and I was like and it's like okay Well, you know because you want to play it.

I don't know where it came from. I don't know what happened it just showed up and And so I started I started taking lessons, and it was so funny back then because like there's no YouTube like now I like oh yeah, good lord. You know how easy to be learning guitar now kids have no idea It's like you got a teacher right there in front of you whenever you want it And they still complain about how difficult it is yeah, no kidding they want to start at the top and work their way sideways right right So um so you know I had a good day.

I did the the traditional thing I had a guitar teacher and in the whole process and and One of the first classes I'll never forget one of the first classes I go in and goes well What kind of music you into and I'm like well? I'm really into you know like you know Muddy Waters and BB King and the blues you know But I'm really kind of curious about about jazz like you know I'm kind of curious about being a jet you know getting into like some jazz guitar stuff and I'll never forget the teacher. He's got Smoking by the way in a closed little room right right right? Chain smoking like he's got a pile of dead cigarettes in the ashtray, and he's gonna put another in the next 30 minutes He's probably gonna smoke a pack right, and he's just chain smoking right and so he takes my hero He takes the last draw for this cigarette. He takes so after I make this comment I wanted to do you know learn some jazz he takes the last drop his cigarette He's putting it out in the ashtray.

He goes jazz is for pussies Well, I guess I'm not learning jazz then So yeah, so you're in New Orleans and the guitar teacher says oh, no this was back here now That's I think those are fighting words So no it was, but it was a lot of so so for me It was so I had the guitar and you know my parents were kind of like never really very pushy about it There was kind of like you know well Either he'll play it or he won't we don't really care They're more interested in their son going on and getting all kinds of schooling and things like that And so it was always this fight that was going on between you know kind of like Finding the time to do it and so it really didn't you know and then I don't know going through college and things like that It was just mostly cover band BS You know it was just kind of doing all those things and in one cover band out of another one in one cover man out of another one During that period of time I learned how you know I started playing some bass guitar Which is what I'm playing now and why rabbit object I started doing some I started learning some drums And I played drum. I play drums in a Weiser tribute band for a while You know so like I've done. I've you know I've been around very specific.

Yeah And what's funny now is how much I hate Weiser like I remember at the time loving Weiser And now I'm like when we first got together you were like if you ever say you don't like Weiser I know it was like a Yeah, so it was a very for me It was more of a slow build and I didn't you know I didn't start writing my own music until really you know probably sometime in the last 10 15 10 12 years something like that was the first time I even thought about it was like oh I know I'll write a song right and that and that the first time though you you perform your own song like Even just in a practice situation. It feels like you gave birth is like the most incredible beautiful feeling when you know It's like and it's a End of the other person who's giving birth is what playing your song beautiful is what I'm saying. It's a beautiful thing to have Well, I mean I've seen the birth of both of my kids when they first came out.

It's not pretty Oh, yeah, you want to run that under some water No, it's no, but no I totally get that though, but that's funny We're gonna we're gonna get all kinds of emails and stuff like that man has no idea what it's like to give birth He doesn't I don't either though, but we know what happens and we know that people see movie beautiful Maybe we'll start the rock-and-roll Chicago birthing Do that you can take over that one for sure yeah, so you're both multi-instrumentalist So when you when you go into the studio, and you're recording all your songs It's pretty much just the two of you guys doing it then right no We've we've got another Lead guitarist, but when Frank and I are in the studio. I mean we really After we lay the base of everything and we get that first draft done. That's really when he and I go into sort of correct me if I'm wrong, but it's sort of this like creative overdrive or like I kind of feel like I'm I'm like outside of my own body looking in on what's happening and It kind of gives me the opportunity now that we've like laid that groundwork to be like okay.

Well There should be this backing vocal section here. There should be this synth line here or like for Was it love on hold? he went back in after we had added the guitar and added a bunch more like little guitar things that just added to The way that the song came out and so yeah, we're we're definitely both in multi instrumentalist in the studio But we do have other people that we right But are you careful not to over produce it so that you can so that you can reproduce it when you're live absolutely Yeah, because we've we've done both. I mean we've not been careful about it.

Yeah, and we've been careful about it I don't know. I don't know that there's even necessarily a right or wrong answer about that But because I mean when you come when you come to the show you're gonna get a raw performance Yeah, right. We're not gonna.

You know you're not gonna get a you're not gonna get the I mean We're definitely not Steely Dan. We're not you know like they're like the best in my mind That's like the best studio band that exists ever and they replicated because they're able to like Well, they can take money higher 20 people. Yeah But I think at the end of the day like I'm I'm okay with Some frills, but for the most part.

I would say that the goal is not to be frilly right the goal is authenticity and Sort of Artistic integrity, and I think that the more that we're able to replicate what we do in the studio on stage The more those things align I have to ask because I've listened to most of the stuff that you guys have online Are you recording digitally, or are you guys recording using analog methods we've done both Yeah Most of the stuff that that you're hearing now though. It's digital. I mean we use a Though the EP that we're releasing now was all done at a sound about student sound vault studios in Chicago It's all digital.

We could have done analog, but I gotta be brutally honest with you. It's expensive I've done it before I believe me. I know yeah like it was yeah at the time It was like 300 bucks a reel or something like that Yeah, we when this band and not everybody is very good at using so that was what I was gonna say It was we had this guy approach us back when we were like with the first lineup of white rabbit objects None of those members are in the band anymore, right? And this guy approaches about want to record you want you to be on this like label I have and we spent all day in the studio Only for the analog tape to be completely destroyed.

Oh, yeah, so yeah wasted my well It's a it's a it's a complete art. I mean it is Slice things together Do it manually I mean you have to be a surgeon like you that's not being taught anymore So you can't you can't just put the machine into the hands of someone and say here make this perfect because they're not going yeah And it also, you know like it was it's just like the simple things like with with this current EP love on hold is the perfect example because We got done with recording love on hold and it was just a little bit. It was there wasn't wasn't quite enough there and Musically and so I had to go back into the studio and now you know It's me and the producer trying to figure out how we're gonna You know beef it up and where we're gonna beef it up and quite honestly We did a lot of cut and pasting and taking other takes from other things that we did and dropping them in And all of a sudden then it's like oh look at just that little bit of work We did but we couldn't have done that with tape, you know, it's the picture, right? We we you know, we had 15 different takes of the guitars So that allowed me to do a lot more, you know, so and I would say that on the whole were I? am quite There's a mode of perfectionism that comes out for me when I'm recording right, and so if I don't love a take and analog requires some level of like being Dead on or else you're running through reels of tape.

Oh, yeah, right, you know to be okay with the mistake Yeah, and I I don't know. I don't like to put out things that I'm not fully a hundred percent invested in and just Analog makes that really difficult for the for the perfectionist and me to feel good So digital has just always been like better for us, right? Well, whoever did did I tell you they did a great job of taking digital recordings and making it sound extremely analog because it has that It has that white stripes or black keys kind of a shout-out to Andrew I mean it really does I mean it has it has the mid-range drag has like the higher-end mid-range boosts which almost simulate like the crackles in a Yeah, if you listen to it, which is great Mm-hmm I liked the the warmth and the sound and the recordings and everything and just that the room reverb that just kind of like Bounced off of everything. I mean it sounded like a live performance Even though it was you know, I was listening to something recorded.

That was great Thank you, there's no no rainbows in Indiana. Yeah Sky So what's funny is that so true story I mean it is the true story that it really started with the fact that we were driving through, Indiana We were coming home going back to Chicago and a sunshower started and she said, oh, honey Look for rainbows and I said don't you know, there's no rainbows in Indiana not even two minutes. I'm on my phone I'm like that's a song Yeah, and we wrote it and it's weird because like we when we wrote it we kind of thought of it as like it was Like an ode to Chicago sort of thing.

It was not like we didn't anticipate People enjoying it as much as they do and now it's kind of because we played a show at the Cobra Lounge back in July and the room was sold out and Hearing all of these people 300 people singing take me back home After we're saying there ain't no rainbows in Indiana. It was like a Very chilling moment and the fact that you know that sense of place resonated with so many people That was really cool. Yeah, right.

No, I totally get that. I mean living so close to the end of Indiana border He's actually closer to it than I am we can identify with that Absolutely, I can't tell you how many times I've taken the lonely drive from here to Indianapolis or even further Kentucky in the whole bit. Yeah, which can be a boring drive.

It's horrific and it always rains The windmills Well all this music talk has got me Jones and to hear for some of your stuff want to play something for us, yeah We'll be right back. I'm gonna take a break. You're listening to the rock and roll Chicago podcast I'm Christy from crime cave podcast I've had a huge interest in true crime since my days of watching marathons of snapped back in the mid 90s I needed an outlet to talk about the cases that have haunted me for a very long time With each episode under 20 minutes.

I shine a light on some of the most bizarre cases in the last 50 years Join me in the crime cave Hi, I'm Rick Anthony I'd like to thank my radio brothers Ray the roadie and Hollywood Mike for allowing me to tell you about my podcast The someone you should know podcast we spotlight musicians authors and interesting people and we like to say We're making a difference one artist at a time The podcast is heard twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays and you could check it out on your favorite streaming platforms and on the web At someone you should know podcast.com. That's the someone you should know podcast with me Rick Anthony making a difference one artist at a time Alrighty, we're back. And here we go. This is something new.

We have never had this instrument in our studio before I Didn't know I don't know anybody that plays the didgeridoo I mean either So hit it river this is a song from our upcoming EP It's called keep you like a secret It actually features a very good friend of mine on the Hammond b3 Scott May from the eyes of March. He's featured on this record Yeah, so gonna gonna play a stripped-down version for you guys. Alrighty Oh Oh I'm falling for you.

I wanna keep you Like Wanna love you like a shadow. Why? Wanna hold you like a lover I Spooking all the time I'm falling for you. I wanna keep you like Wanna chase you Wanna hurt you Wanna love you like a shadow.

Why? Wanna keep you like a secret wanna chase you Wanna hurt you like a lover I Am so glad you played that song because that was the Song that I listened to when I was looking for you guys on the internet, and that's my second favorite one I was sitting here the whole time after we were talking about No rainbows in Indiana, and I was thinking gosh. What was that second one? I can't remember the name the second one and that was it that was that was the one that was fantastic That was excellent. I absolutely love that.

I'd go to Carnegie Hall to hear that yeah Thank you, I know I realized like as I started playing I was like I set my keyboard up a little bit too high But it's fine, I'm glad you guys love the song that's super super cool Yeah, that one's that one is one that I Held on to for a while. I was not anticipating giving it to this band. I Come from like a neo soul jazz background and I For me it was like playing in a rock and roll band was something that was very Foreign to me and so I was like oh well this this sounds it feels like me again, and then White rabbit object still got a hold of it then we turned it into some something in the middle of what I wanted it to be and Bring it bring Scott from the eyes of Martian Scott Mayan that really helps for me to feel really really good about the song because he and I have this we we Run in similar crowds in terms of the music that we love so having him Do his part on this record? Helps me feel really good about the final product at the end of the day right right and he's definitely a friend at a museum To talk to him about it.

No. I haven't I forgot to mention in the we were doing this well Just the whole the whole Jim Peterick organization. Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure They're all really good people yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely you know Looking on the internet, and you know just reading the comment.

I interrupt you just from sure yeah Go right ahead this just then sure for anybody that's interested Scott May is episode 53 of the rock and roll Chicago podcast Yeah Wow, no kid go on that's great. That's great back to Mike. I forgot what I was saying now take it away.

I'm old Yeah, I know when you were saying that you were eight years old and in 9-eleven happened I was sitting here doing the math in my head and thinking geez I was a father And she was playing at Carnegie Hall. I didn't know you were a priest Yeah No, but um what was I saying now you interrupted me? I'm so sorry Oh, so you know I was just reading comments from people you know they go on and put little blurbs Oh, my god. It's great.

You guys sound like this, and you sound like that, and I heard I heard Amy Winehouse a lot And you know I'm gonna. I'm gonna be you know. I'm just gonna say it.

You know what I was never a fan of hers Yeah, I wasn't and you don't sound like Amy Winehouse to me when I when I that's refreshing cuz I feel like I get it so I'll tell you what I like that song right there That when I first heard it for the first time I was thinking Alicia Keys Oh, wow, and thank you, and then some of your other stuff that I was that I listened to I was thinking Alabama shakes And I love the Alabama shakes love the Alabama shakes. They're amazing She's she is fantastic what's amazing? Oh, you thought I had a big ego when I walked in here Oh Great, I'm not gonna get her head in the car. No and the thing I love Amy Winehouse.

I my brother, and I we both You know he whenever like I would sing in the house. You know and I'd sing Amy songs He's like it feels like she's here. You know and it's like It's cute though.

I think I can I can I? Understand where people get that from especially with some of my older stuff like I I can definitely hear where people get it but I I never want to feel like I'm being pigeonholed into sounding like One specific person. I think it's cool like how JVO said it's like the black keys and Meets Amy Winehouse and challenges them to a game of strip poker like that I can like that I can get on board with because it's not like you sound like this person right like I My goal at the end of the day is to bring something new to the table right and sort of be this sort of crush genre New thing that's happening, so thank you for saying that I appreciate that well You know I think my my adversity to Amy Winehouse began not not because of Amy herself sure But because every up-and-coming female singer all of a sudden wanted to sound like Amy Winehouse It's a very specific style of like not pronouncing your words all the way exactly exactly And I can I can tell when someone's being genuine And that's the way they sing and that's the way they've always sang yeah I can tell when somebody is just getting up there, and you can tell that they're focusing on mispronouncing the words Yeah, you know because only because they want to sound like Amy Winehouse impersonator and it's weird cuz like I So sometimes I don't pronounce my words That's just something I've that's before I knew who Amy Winehouse was like that was something that but I've I've really worked on because the things That I have to say are important I think my songs have important messages in them And I I want to pronounce my words clearly so that people can hear what I'm saying but there is also that sort of like guttural like Contralto thing and I think that people aren't used to hearing women that have Contralto voices because there's not a ton And I do have that to keep you like secret is not a good example of my contralto singing but You know I think that people are just like they're like oh well that person is it so you're this too, and yeah I'm not I think you know if you're if somebody if someone is doing it naturally Yeah, and I find myself doing it on occasion as well, but you know I think it comes out of the fact, okay? I'm trying to relax my jaw I'm trying to relax all the muscles in my mouth and in my neck and the whole bit sometimes you just let the words fall Off because it's like yeah, all right. It's gonna come out better even though and then It adds to the story.

You know sometimes you don't hear the words precisely you know sometimes you need to hear it You know where it's just kind of like I don't know Yeah, no there were a few times in the studio where both Frank and our our producer our sound engineer were like Can you say that word again? You'll have to play it back to me Because in my brain it doesn't sound like that right, you know it's just And my speaking voice is like naturally lower than you know so like again like things get sort of lost in the Whatever in the ether But yeah, no I think it's really important to you know stay It's like the one piece of advice that I would give to like aspiring artists don't base the sound that you're aspiring to be on anybody else, but you I mean it's okay to like people and to Think other people write amazing music, but to sort of like Idolize people and put your creative processes like in this like one like tiny path I don't think that's very like I don't think that's emotionally healthy because like you're not that person right and be it's not good for you Creatively because like the goal is to add something new to this incredible art, and if you're just replicating and Yeah, we don't need a thousand. We don't need a thousand anyone else But I would like to I do want to thank Frank for running out and getting dinner during that song Yeah, I had the patty melt if you could pass it over here. You know I cut it down to Yeah, I know the song is long.

I did cut out a part of it, okay Was good when we play when we play it live we it's like six minutes over six minutes the recording I think came came in at 520. Yeah, I did in it. Yeah, okay, cuz I go off on tangents I'll go off on a change if they're not into it.

That's what we're blessed with an amazingly especially live shredding guitarist So so ladies love to watch him shred Yeah, when we were at Cobra Cobra Lounge, they were like going oh my god. Yeah, it was amazing You do that too well I think that's your next song what he does when I get out of the shower I didn't tell you all the things so yeah To be grateful. I gave you a little yeah, that's great.

You got one more song inside of that thing. Oh, maybe Maybe we can do that. Yeah, we definitely need to hear another one.

Yeah, another one. Oh, yeah, we can do that That's cool. Yeah, tell us about tell us about this one.

I don't know what I'm gonna play it Oh, that was caught. I don't know what I'm gonna play it Very good time you could go anywhere with that. All right, let me let me let me figure it out.

Let's think let's think Are we allowed to pause here We can pause You could do born in a bad way. It's releasing Friday. I'll tell you what you think about it first Yeah, you think about it for a second because there is something else that I wanted to ask you about too.

So tell me about Whiskey hotel tango, is that it did I get it right? Yeah whiskey hotel tango. So this is like a This is like a serial release album or something like that. So yeah, we're gonna we're doing three parts Okay, it's a whiskey hotel tango.

And if you're if you're up on your NATO your NATO communication Secret codes you pretty much figure out what probably the the other two titles are for the next to next to Romeo Bravo Bravo tango and Oscar Bravo Juliet will be the will be the three Okay, and it's just following the the letters of the band. Sure. Of course, of course Is it is it three full albums? Is it what three to five? It's gonna be it's gonna be four to five songs on each one This one's got five songs the next one.

We're gonna try to get these all out by the end of 2024 It's gonna it should be all released the goal the next album the next the next four songs are Definitely, I would say More More rock and roll. It's it's there's it's definitely gonna go more. Yeah, like a little bit heavier more garage more psychedelic and and then the last one I'm hoping for is gonna be more it's gonna be more soft and river able to Express more of herself in the in the last one But we're really we're really thrilled we've got to some new songs that we wrote that Every time we play and we're like, oh my god, did we write that and really that was Oz that came up with that idea? Yeah, so and it's been great, you know, it's it's a lot of fun too because when you know Me and when me and River are sitting at home like all of a sudden, you know I could just be off and like I'll get some ideas for a song and you know Generally speaking what happens is I get some music and then I start writing lyrics and then she goes River goes Okay, I'll take it from here And I turn it over to the captain of the ship and She then comes but and I in every single time I mean, I I'm not too proud to say that she is a much better lyricist than I am.

I and sometimes I Channel something sometimes like once more down the rabbit hole was great But the but for the most part it's like she she definitely She sees where I'm going and then all of a sudden it's just like oh Bubba Bubba Bubba, and it comes out in 10. I just have a bigger vocabulary. No, that's That medieval literature background you go get dinner again, I'll have this done All right, I hope I remember how this goes let's see here give me a second I figured this out That's okay, we got a guy that does the editing he can cut all this stuff out really? Oh, yeah cool His name is Paulie.

Hi Paulie. You might want to cut this stuff out So we're cutting this out I can cut this part out I don't know. It's not it kind of sounds like you know rough in the studio We might leave it in you won't know until it comes out Okay, I think we're fine We'll try anyway, so this is a this is an older song, but it's new to the band that we're starting to play out that I wrote back in 2017 and it's just getting its legs now Called born in a bad way.

It's kind of a blues ear Comes out. Oh, oh my god. I haven't even been talking about it.

Okay. Well, I need to do more work Put your microphone a little bit away away away. Are we good like there? There we go.

Okay, let's give it a try I'm gonna turn this down just a tad From the hollow cave I crawled open from a silent tower A self-departing time to try and ease the pain This place is a little darker than I imagined it could be And I'm howling just release me from that light I'm coming with It's all gone through the heart of me By two children and the white But the broken man inside you still Cuts me like a knife So let it all be so Yeah yeah yeah Only thing with the black Oh baby I I've been born in a bad way One day I'll leave this world The same way that I came Back to the hollow cave I'll go With all my dying chains Drinking till they kill me Only thing with the black Oh baby I I've been born in a bad way That's how a song goes Awesome, wow If you play it on the keys which I normally don't so Oh wow, okay Cool fun times Okay We transposed it, it's fine Yeah It's fine That's great So I know you guys have some shows coming up Yeah, quite a few You have something like on October 27th I think coming up So we got this We got this Saturday at Lagunitas Okay We've got the 27th In Madison In Madison, Wisconsin, yes Doing a Halloween show, costumes I'll let you guess what I'm going as You'll let me guess what you're going as Frank No That'd be a good one though No I wouldn't have the foggiest idea I've already used this costume I'm going as a playboy bunny or white rabbit object Oh, that's right Okay, there you go Yeah Yeah You went as Hugh last time I did I can't let this costume go to waste It's too good It's too good It's really good You could not go as Hugh again No, I'm not going to Okay, cool Okay Yeah We'll find something Then we've got Sound Growler Sound Growler, yeah Which is Primal Moon You guys have Primal Moon in here They're doing their album release show Yeah We're playing a show with them It's Sound Growler in Tinley Park Yep, yep Then we're headed up to Grand Rapids We're going to be doing a show Not a show, it's sort of an intimate show Meets videotaping of a couple of our tracks At Elevator at Go-Go Oh, okay Yeah, so Kevin Matthews Yeah, Kevin Matthews We're excited to work with him Oh, no kidding Wow, excellent, excellent Yeah And then they kind of just keep trickling in And then December 2nd we're at Reggie's again I love playing Reggie's And then we're going to take a little bit of a recording hiatus Hopefully get some work done in the studio And then we're not back until probably the end of January Come back swinging Right, right, right So where can people find you? I was going to say you've got to tell them Because it wasn't easy I will, I'll tell you No, it wasn't yet No, I believe you We're everywhere If you type in wht.rbbt.obj Pretty much all of our socials will come up If you do those letters without the dots Just wht.rbbt.obj.com That's our website Website settled Okay, okay Type the name in on Spotify It'll come right up I mean, we're all over socials I went to your Facebook page And there's a different website A different link on your Facebook page It was like something tree-er Oh, for the link tree So that just links everybody to all of our different socials Right, right, right And you can find our band camp there and everything Yeah, we've got a band camp It's kind of a great background in the whole bit And a place where we can buy hats like yours I have a hat collection Oh, do you really? I went right to it He's also got a hat collection Yeah, I've got a hat problem Yeah, me too Specifically, these Gorin hats are just like I can't stop, I can't stop They send them to me now, too And I'm just like, okay He's like a micro-influencer It's so strange Yeah, that's awesome Yeah, yeah I've got fedoras and western hats and stuff like that I liked the one you rolled in in That was a good one I've got a few Gorin Brothers hats But I've got the fedoras Yeah, yeah I wear a lot of I like their pork pies Yeah, yeah I have one Gorin It's the Dean the Butcher Oh, yeah, that's a great hat I love that hat That is a great hat I bought that hat when Gorin still had a storefront in Nashville Okay, yeah And I'd never been And I was like, treat yourself And I bought myself the Dean the Butcher hat And I love that hat Yeah, excellent That's awesome Fantastic Well, thanks for coming out, guys Thank you so much for having us This was fun It was a real treat Yeah, absolutely All right, we're going to get out and see I may check you out at that sound growler You should Yeah, that's close We'll buy you a beer I'll buy you a beer If you're going to be there, I'll just put you on the list Okay, well, I'll let you know When is it? What's the date on that one? November 10th November 10th, all right You're on a list You're going to get a beer It's going to be a hoot and a holler Awesome Awesome A hoot and a holler Yeah You heard it You heard it here first So we're having hooters and beer, I guess Yes That's right And then we're going to yell at you All righty, guys We didn't say the Frank Zappa title to that So it's fine All right, all righty Thanks a lot Thank you Well, there you have it What did I call it again? Oh, the white rabbit object White rabbit object Not the objective Not the objective Right Not the whit ribbit No, no, no, no Not at all Whit ribbit objective or something? No, the white rabbit object I got to tell you It's not very often that I get excited about hearing a new band and want to see them succeed and do well and want to go out and see them and want to hear what their next album is going to be Yep I'm excited about these guys So am I I can't contain it I like what they're doing You know how they're going to put out three EPs and they're naming them, you know Right They know what they're doing It's not just willy-nilly We're going to throw some songs together Put an EP, let's go They've actually thought this through Right, yeah, absolutely And I love the sound I mean, I love the sound You have to listen to them Hearing her play in the studio was great But to hear those songs the way they're interpreted and recorded with a vintage sound that they have Exactly In a digital age, Analog becomes the new renaissance That's right And I don't think we've ever had a Carnegie Hall performer here in our studio Not you or I, that's for sure Right Maybe one has graced the museum, you know, walked through Right, right, right Not with us That's a very impressive, very talented couple there Yeah, absolutely, absolutely So definitely get out and see them You know, for you South Side people they're going to be at Sound Growler November 10th They said, so November 10th, yeah Yeah, so make a point to get out there I just might go there Yeah, no kidding I'm on the list I don't know if you heard that or not You are on the list I'm on the list, yeah So you get a hoot and a free holler I do, I do Hoot and holler No nanny, though No hoot and nanny No, no hoot and nanny No But okay, everybody As always, thank you for listening to the Rock & Roll Chicago podcast And tune in next Tuesday for another exciting episode See you then The Rock & Roll Chicago podcast is edited by Paul Martin Theme song courtesy of MNR Rush The Rock & Roll Chicago podcast does not own the rights to any of the music heard on the show The music is used to promote the guests that are featured