Hey, this is Paul Martin. And Ray the Roadie. For the Rock and Roll Chicago podcast.

How are you, Ray? Hey, we're back, people. We're on a little bit of a hiatus. Welcome to 2022.

Yes, indeed. So, how have you been, Ray? I've been good. I've been good.

I haven't seen you in a while. You surviving the weather? The cold weather? Yeah. Right now it's cold and snowy, but I should be in Florida doing this.

We all should be in Florida. It's going to be overcrowding. That's true.

But I hear right now there are people freaking out that live down there because it's going to go, it's going to be like 56 degrees and they're freaking. Yeah. We haven't seen 50 around here for months.

Yeah. Well, yeah. That's the way it is.

You get used to one thing and then you're stuck with it. That's right. And then they get thin blood down there.

So who are we talking to today now? Who have we got first on our list here of 2022? 2022. Well, we actually have a accomplished author. An author? He's an author.

I thought this was a Rock and Roll podcast. Yeah. Well, he's also a Rock and Roller, but he's an author.

It's Billy McCarthy. He's the drummer of the DeMolls, as well as a plethora of other bands. And he's also the author of a couple of books, the newest being Beat Me Till I'm Famous.

Yes. It's a great book about the music business, about his life in the malls and playing and moving from Chicago, Cayma Park in particular, Illinois, to L.A. and Hollywood and the lifestyle in Hollywood and the cutthroat business of the music business back in the 80s. And it's a great book.

And I recommend everybody get out and get out and order it. Write it for Amazon. Beat Me Till I'm Famous by Billy McCarthy.

He's also got another book out there that I'm going to have to pick up and read soon It's a fictional novel. Yes, it's a fictional novel. It's called The Devil of Shakespeare, which I don't think has anything to do with Shakespeare.

It might have something to do with the devil, though. It might, yes. One or the other.

But he talked about it. And so let's get to it and talk to Billy, see what Billy has to say and see what's up with him and how he's doing nowadays. Hey, everybody.

Welcome to the show. Today, we're speaking with Billy McCarthy, who is a drummer, author, producer, painter, actor. Yeah, and pretty good golfer, too.

How are you doing today, Billy? Hey, good to see you guys. I'm doing great. It's really good to be on the show because I, you know, I zoomed around a little bit online and got some good stuff going on.

Good to see you again, Paul. Last time we saw each other was at the golf outing. Yeah, I'm at our golf outing.

Yeah. And I think Ray DeRode, were you there, Ray? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Ray helps out with a lot of stuff. Let's jump right into, well, I guess we'll start with the molds, right? Or you're drumming, you started drumming in Cal Park in the early 80s, right? No, actually, yeah, I started drumming in like 77.

I was like a junior in high school. I started really late. And, you know, I was into sports and everything.

And, you know, Chips and I, we lived across the street from each other. So we were on the same baseball teams. We were on, you know, we did pretty well in sports and baseball, particularly.

So, you know, we grew up in Calumet Park. It was a very sports-oriented kind of town, small town. You know, I always wanted a drum set.

And I knew if I got one, my dad would come home and be like, what the hell is this? What's going on? You know? So as I wrote in the book, you know, they went on a trip. And I had been working because I always worked since I was like eight years old. I was delivering papers and doing whatever.

And I had a pretty good job when I was like 16. So I just got this drum set, man. And, you know, dad came home and mom from Iowa.

And they freaked out. And next thing you know, I was playing drums. And I remember, like, I would sit in a room and I would just play.

And, you know, I sat down instantly. And it took me like a week or two. And I got Headknocker by Foreigner.

You know, I nailed that one, you know, with the headphones on. And then I just, you know, quickly, boom, I went to Come On, Come On, The Treats. It was a band called The Treats, which is really exciting because you guys, Eminor Rush, gave us our first break.

I was in his band, you know, we were doing covers. We had about 10 songs, you know, we used to put the needle on and the record player. And then you'd go in the other room and you go, OK, I think we got it.

Let's go. Let's do it. You know, we were doing like Cheap Trick, Foreigner, Montrose, all the stuff that we, you know, and then we never did Rush.

That's one thing to our credit. And then I remember seeing you guys when I was like 16 or 17 years old. I grew up right next door.

I mean, right down the street, really, in Roseland, in West Pullman. Where at? In West Pullman? In West Pullman. Yeah, it was right by West Pullman Park.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, this is in Calumet Park where I'm playing drum.

Because I left West Pullman when I was 12 and I was in 72. I'm giving away my age. But oh, yeah, West Pullman Park was just it was unbelievable.

So that's that's why I didn't know that you were from West Pullman. Wow. So did you what? I went to St. Catherine in Genoa and whatnot.

And I talk about that in the book. But when I got to Calumet Park, my life really changed. You know, it was it was kind of strange.

It was it was a nice town. It's a very small town. It's like the Brady Bunch town.

Everybody knew each other. And so then I started playing the drums. And I remember seeing you guys.

I'm in a rush. It was like one of the first bands that I actually saw on the south side. I think you guys were playing some car thing outside.

It was really weird. But I saw those blue sparkle drums. I saw Marty chewing his bubble gum.

And I was like, and the band was so big. He's still chewing that same gum today. Yeah, he still is, right? So because I remember at the time it was I saw Hartsfield when I was 13.

JC Hartsfield. Right. And Artie Bonacci was, you know, a good friend of mine.

He was going out with their sisters. So I saw Hartsfield. And I was like, wow, this is cool.

I really I don't know. Why do I dig the drummer? You know what I'm saying? And you know, Artie was great. And then I saw Marty and I was like, OK, this is like really inspiring.

I think I can do this, you know. And it wasn't until we did a bunch of shit gigs, you know, like we played in backyards and stuff like that and garages and, you know, all that stuff is covered in the book. But when we got to Argo High School and open up for you guys, that's basically when, you know, we were so excited to open up for M&R Rush that we went downstairs, you know, after we got done, we're like, OK, that was a great set.

Let's go to the front row now and watch M&R Rush, you know. So we go down there and we run down there and we're just sitting there waiting for you guys to come on. I don't even think we said hi to you guys because you scared the shit out of us.

So we we sat in the front row and I got to behold, he's like three foxy chicks come up four or five, you know, one hour autograph. We're like, what the hell is this? We're the same age as you. Why would you want an autograph? And that's when the light bulb went off.

You know, hey, this is cool, man. You know, drums equals chicks equals what? Yeah, that's how it really. Well, I live right down, I live right down the street from Barney Baldacci.

We have about a half a block from him. He lives on the corner. I live in the middle of the block.

Where do you see them at the Cal Park Rec Center? You know, I don't even remember it was somewhere it was it was it was no, it was small. It was a very intimate kind of thing because the guy that Dave, Dave Garland, my friend at the time, his sister, Debbie, was going out with her and then they were and their cousin was going out with my sister. And so it was a whole, you know, hey, you want to come to this gig? And so then, you know, in between after that, it was like just a club thing.

And looking at flyers, man, the other day, you know, like just this stuff that's coming up on like Facebook and like you see, Jesus Christ, we everybody I mean, you guys were amazing. You guys went out like, what, 30 times a month or 20 times a month, at least. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, we went out we I started I evolved from the treats. It was called The Treats.

It was our first gig with you guys. Then we call ourselves Come On, Come On because we were just so obsessed with Cheap Trick. And, you know, that song, Come On, Come On.

Yeah. And and then it just evolved. But then I and then I got to play with Kevin Lee and Harpy, which was a really, really big band in the city in the north side of Chicago.

And that really, like, taught me the ropes as far as recording goes. And then I split town, man, when I was 21, went to L.A., never been on a plane before. Just got called for a band called Kid Rocker.

This is before Demolish. This is in 81. And Kid Rocker, man, was just like it was a great, great pop band, you know, and I mean, we were managed by Bill O'Coin, who discovered Kiss and Billy Idol.

And we had the world, you know, we were playing the Whiskey and Go-Go. Nikki Sixx was living downstairs. Lita Ford would come over with him and borrow some tinfoil.

And it was just like it was a trip. We all lived in the same building. I lived in a building with Motley Crue and they were broke, you know.

So Tommy was there and Vince and Nikki all lived in a two bedroom. Yeah, it was a two bedroom. So then, you know, to make a long story short and cut to the chase, we got done with that.

And Kid Rocker, though, that was a great pop band, man. I mean, you take Poison, you take Nuff's Enough, you take all those bands, man. It's like the songwriter and singer we had, it was just like the material was just ungodly, hooky.

And it just all fell apart at the seams. Came back in 84 after starving for so long. After being in a band with CeCe DeVille and us doing Talk Dirty to Me, came back empty handed, didn't have the gold.

My dad said, what are you going to do next? Got in DeMalls, which had just formed for some rehearsals. And I said, we got to go back out to L.A., man. We went out to L.A. We got a record deal within two weeks.

And that was how quick it happened when I was 25. Well, I know in the book, you talk a lot about how rotten the music business can be, you know, and how brutally it can be. Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

I mean, I was hanging out with all the A&R guys and stuff, you know, once you get inside the label, you turn into, you know, you're outside the record industry and you're looking in and you're going, these people are kind of intimidating, you know. But then once you get that deal, then you suddenly become the king and the flavor, you know what I'm saying? And then they want to bring you around and show you off the parties. And, you know, when I was in DeMal's, you know, when we were playing, I mean, we kicked ass as soon as we got out there.

Our first show was sold out. You know, everybody was there. Slaughter was there.

Guys at Faster Pussycat, Tommy Thayer from Kiss, they were all there. They knew we were coming to town and it was sold out. And we actually got our deal offered right after that, about a week after that.

Yeah, it was cutthroat after we get into the kind of the, you know, and again, relating to the book, you know, after you get into the deep things of what's going on within bands and, you know, somebody in our band had an ulterior motive, you know, he always wanted to be a solo artist. So if we just had the spirit that Eminar Rush had, you know, like, you know, stay together and shut up, you know what I'm saying? I mean, because it's like, that's why bands like Poison made it and Warrant and all those bands is because they had like this unity, man. There wasn't a guy in a band that was like, I think I want to be a solo artist.

You know, you can be a solo artist after you sell maybe a million, you know, or two at the time, you know, in the 80s. But if you're going to use a band to get to your, you know, agenda of being a solo artist, because you're not really that good at what you're doing, you know, you need other band members, you know, you're not a hit songwriter on your own. So, you know, it was kind of like, that's where everything really started to fall apart at the seams for us.

It was always an ulterior motive with, you know, someone in the band. I'm not here to sling mud or anything like that. It was just that if we had a little bit more of a team player, I think great things would happen to them all.

And I don't mean that first album, because that was a really bad album, although a lot of people love that album. The second album, Warped, is the one that was like, that was golden. And it never made it out of the box because Atlantic found out that we broke up right the week it was coming out.

So there were never any press to publish? No, there was nothing on Warped. And it's one of our best albums and probably one of the best albums, I don't say this lightly, in that whole glam pure metal thing. I mean, there is some serious, serious groove in that album on Warped.

And that's the album, I don't know if you remember in the book when I went to, I saw Motley Crue and Warrant open for them. I was in a limo with Janie Lane from Warrant and we were driving to downtown to Excalibur after party. And I was spinning off the Warped and he said, you're going to be a very rich man.

He goes, these songs are freaking great. You know, Kevin Beamish did the album for us. He did Our Radio Speedwagon, you know, Cantuna Piano, Cantuna Fish, the big one.

So but we went through hell getting that album because, you know, for one, I almost got fired from the band, as you read. I won't give it away. But I know you probably remember that drama that happened.

But, you know, here I am, you know, started the band basically from scratch and like led the way and took the, you know, you know, did all this great stuff with the band. And then you got somebody like, you know, conspiring against you to fire you. And it's all politics, man.

Going back to your original question, it's all it's all politics, man. It's not about who's doing a bad job or who's doing it good. It's just about getting your flavor in the band.

You know, I watched Tom Petty, the documentary on Tom Petty and Stan Lynch is one of the greatest drummers ever. And they tried to replace him because just, you know, Jimmy Iovine had a hard-on for him. So, you know, he just didn't get along with them.

And unquestionably, there's only one drummer for Tom Petty. That was Stan Lynch, you know, so. So we can't find that music anywhere.

Can't find Warped anywhere. Oh, you can find Warped all over the place. Yeah.

I mean, it's definitely available. I mean, you can do downloads and stuff like that. I mean, it's out there.

And, you know, the first album was really a tragedy because the band was so powerful live. We really, really had it together live. I think our band was a little bit more strong on the music side than it was on the vocal side.

And although I'm not going to, you know, bash Desi, Desi was good when he was down in the mid-range, you know, on his vocals. He was very good, you know, when he sings certain songs, like there's a song called Father Time, if you look it up on YouTube. It's a smash hit, you know, it's, you know, he sounds good down in that range.

It's when he tried to get to the Stephen Perry thing that I think he got a little bit, Stephen Tyler thing. I think he got a little bit drowned out because we had a nice thick bottom going on with the band. But live, the band was just, it was on fire live.

It was great. We never had like less than like a sold out show in LA. I mean, it was never a show where it was like, wow, you know, this sucks, man.

There's like 50 people here. It was like, you know, we played with Guns N' Roses. We all split the bill and stuff like that.

We were all coming up together and we were all broke. And so it's just like sitting back and going, man, it's just a matter of time. But it was never about like, it was weird.

Is it about luck? Pardon me? Was it about luck too? Well, I don't think it was. I don't think it was about luck. I think it was about, you know, when you're young like that and, you know, you don't have to work, you know, we didn't have to go out and get jobs and stuff, you know, and, uh, and, you know, we had our place paid for and we have a record deal and, you know, we don't have to paint houses or anything.

Um, so it was like, you know, it was just more or less like, um, it's just, it's gonna happen, you know, but the thing is, though, it was, it was more, uh, a weird, it was more of a weird kind of a thing. It was like, I played sports all my life, so I know what's being on a team is about, you know, let's go guys. If we put our heads together, we can do this, you know, I mean, we had a golden opportunity and it just was like thrown out the window, you know, because it was just the ego thing, man.

It was just like, you know, we, we, we couldn't control like, you know, does he just stay get focused, you know, give it some time, you know, we're just, we're all going to do this together. Right. It was like, there was just, it was too much to see going on within like, you know, the whole time we were together as a band and it sucks because it's like same thing with Enough's Enough, great band, terrible mistakes.

That band made the biggest mistakes in the world, you know, and, and the biggest mistake in the world will cost you your career, even if it's just one meeting or one happening and it will do that. And they're a prime example of that. You know, I think I'd much rather be in DeMol's than be on, you know, in Enough's Enough, be on the cover or not in the cover, be in Rolling Stone, be on David Letterman twice and then not have that top 40 hit.

That would be more painful, I think. We're talking today with Billy McCarthy, author, drummer from DeMol's and author of Beat Me Till I'm Famous. A great book.

The book was great. And it's coming from a guy who doesn't read a whole lot. And, and I read the book straight through.

Yeah. So. Thank you, man.

That's, that's, that's cool. That's really good stuff. Thank you, Ray.

Oh, Ray checked it out too. Okay. Thanks, Ray.

I appreciate that. You know, and I got my copy. Ray's got his.

Oh, I love it. I know. And I feel bad.

I was like, you know, I should probably send you guys this electronically because I got to order them. You know, I self-published on this book. The first book I did was a novel.

And, you know. I was going to ask you about that. I was going to ask you about that book.

And so tell us a little bit about it. The Devil of Shakespeare. Of Shakespeare.

Yeah, it was, it's basically, it's fiction. And, you know, I wrote it because I always wanted to be a writer after I got out of the band and stuff like that. Like, since I was a little kid, you know, I would write some stuff.

So I just came up with this. You know, I think, I think I wrote it because I was living in Hollywood and it's fiction. So that means it's not true.

So, you know, yeah. I mean, my dad didn't, you know, beat me when I was little or anything like that. I didn't have an aunt, you know, that molested me or anything like in the book, you know.

So, you know, I grew up in a fairly normal Irish Italian household. When I wrote, you know, The Devil of Shakespeare, I wrote it because I remember I just got out of LA and I was living in Manhattan and I was with Rodney Dangerfield's son. I was producing him and we were up in Rodney's place in Manhattan because Rodney, you know, wasn't there, but his roommate was there, the legendary Joe Ansys.

He was a comedian. I lived in that place with him and Brian and then we'd go to Westport, Connecticut. Well, anyway, to make a long story short, the OJ trial was going on.

I was like, I couldn't believe it. We watched the verdict. Me, Joe Ansys.

If you don't know Joe Ansys, he's a legend. He's like, you know, Lenny Bruce, right? Sure. Well, everything that Lenny Bruce did, he took it from Joe because him and Joe were like this.

They were close. Okay. So they used to hang out and Joe would be like, hey, what's happening, Smiley? You know, he'd call me Smiley and he'd come upstairs and we'd be like, what's up, Joe? And he'd be like, man, I was just down in the elevator, man.

And this chick got on and I was going to the 12th floor where we live and stuff. And like, she just had to hit that button again. You know, I said, you got to hit that button again, don't you? It's already lit.

You know, it's going where you're going to go, you know? But that was the kind of stuff that Joe would come up with. I didn't know that much about Lenny Bruce, except that I knew him. He was a legend, you know? And it wasn't until like Joe died and I got out of that whole situation.

So we were watching the OJ trial and I said, man, I cannot stand this shit, man. This guy killed them. And Hollywood is getting a pass.

This guy's getting a pass because of Hollywood. It's such bullshit. And I think I wrote the whole about the devil of Shakespeare is about the whole hypocrisy within ourselves, you know, how, you know, it's like it's a book that reads the reader.

I'll just say that. It's a thriller. There's, you know, a starting point, a middle point and an ending point.

So, you know, it was cool. I got into the book world and I was like, I got a huge deal. So it was great.

You know, that was a really sweet deal. I got on that. And J.Y. did the stuff on the CD, you know, it was the first CD to come out.

He was gracious enough to play guitar on it. Jamie Lane sang vocals on it. And Chip and I co-wrote the song.

Yeah, you did a song in correlation with the book, right? Yeah, it was the first novel to ever do a song with the book. And then so the CD, I imagine, right? Came with the book. Yeah.

But, you know, and I signed with like I was on Bevella. It was a small publisher at the time. They're doing like every celebrity in the world.

They're like a really big publisher and stuff. And it was a nice little comfort zone when I first started. But, you know, it was a weird thing.

I was like, oh, man, I can go into the book world. This is going to be so easy. You know, I'll get a deal probably in a week.

And I busted my ass, man. I spent a lot of tip money, man, to get that book deal. Man, I worked my ass off for that, you know.

And finally, I got it. I was waiting tables after in 1998 at the Radisson Hotel. I was I was checking people in, as you know, from the book, that one scene when, you know, that chick shows up and she's like, wow, I was just at your house and you signed my album like 10 years ago.

And it was like, but I was yeah, I put the badge out and everything. And then I got that deal. And so, you know, when everybody always says, oh, it's my pride.

I can't do that. And I can't do this. It's like, you know, screw you, man.

Just, you know what? Bury your pride, man. You got to do what you got to do to survive. You know, right now, you know, I have my painting company.

It's I'm not like, you know, hey, I got a bucket. I'll come over and paint your house or something. You know, it's a nice company.

We got people that work for us and everything. And it's a great situation. And I love painting.

You know, it's like my painting contractor. That's what I am. You know, do I want to get back into business again? A lot of people, you know, and particularly one of the biggest directors in Hollywood is really like in love with my book for the last two years.

And for some reason, you know, we meet, but we can never connect the dots to get it going, you know? And they wanted to he's like, man, I think we can get this on Netflix, man, because it's a great story. And it relates to everybody, you know? So but, you know, I don't think about that stuff. You know, all I think about is making money and surviving and taking care of everybody that's at the house over here where we're at.

And when did this book come out? Amy Tillham Famous came out in 2017. Yeah, I originally wrote the first draft of it in 2007. And then I got sidetracked because I did a film on famous drummers called Ferocious Drummers.

I produced that, which has like 20 of the most legendary drummers ever. I did a one-on-one interview. That's sitting in my closet because I can't get myself to go back up and do that dance again.

You know what I'm saying? I put that, Beat Me Till I'm Famous was on ice for like probably like seven or eight years. And then I finally, a good friend of mine, John Reinhart, I'll forever be indebted to him. He said, you know, man, I think you got to finish Beat Me Till I'm Famous because, you know, I've read it.

And John did all the cover work for the first book that I had, The Devil of Shakespeare. And I remained friends with him, which is really good. You know, you keep your friends, you know, as you go along and have a good rapport.

And he said, I think you need to get this book out, man. And I said, okay. And I'm like, yeah, what do you want me to do, man? You know, I'm basically, you know, I just got out of a divorce and I'm like kind of trying to stay alive here and stuff like that.

And he's like, you know, I'll help you out. Cause it's like, you just can't write a book and put it out. You got to hire a copy editor.

You know, that book costs like thousands of dollars to put out, even though it's self-published. But thank God Amazon has this format, you know, that you can put your own book out. You know what I'm saying? You don't have to pay to put out, but you damn well better write it good, you know, cause everybody wants a writer, right? So it's a tough man.

One of the toughest books and things I ever had to do was that book was very tough. Beat Me Till I'm Famous. But something I'm very proud of though.

I mean, I would never, I would never exchange it for anything I've done creatively. I could say maybe like, oh, maybe I'm an okay drummer or something like that. But that's a damn good book that I'm proud of, you know? Yeah, it was great.

Like I said, coming from somebody who doesn't really read many books and I went straight through it. So, you know. Thank you, man.

That's nice to hear. You know, I've had a couple of people like that that have said that, you know, you know, that they're not really readers. And I particularly don't read a lot either, to be honest with you, you know, because when I was writing the books, you know, I don't want to get sweet, but I'm not the biggest reader in the world too, I'll be honest with you.

I did read a couple of good ones though, from like, you know, The Kid Stays in the Picture with Robert Evans. I like autobiographies a lot. But, and of course, George Orwell.

And when you mentioned Joe and you mentioned Lenny Bruce and of course, Rodney, and you did some comedy work yourself, right? I did, I did, you know. I thought that was kind of in the book the way you explained how you got into that. And I mean, it just kind of started writing jokes, right? Yeah, I was with Rodney's kid, Brian, you know, and we were producing his music.

And, you know, he just got this big amount of money for Rodney because Rodney got married to, you know, his young, hot wife, you know. And, you know, up until then, Brian brought us on a salary, a minimal salary, and we were just struggling. He came to Chicago.

And Jeff produced Brian's first song. Jeff Loof produced it over at Star Trek's Harbor, which we got in a Viacom picture. So I remember I was with Brian and I was like, Brian, I go, you know, we were in Austin, Texas, and we were playing and I was producing them and we were playing with some great cats, man.

My best friend at the time, who I didn't know, but we just became like best friends within like a matter of weeks. Ron Flynn from 2020. Great pop band.

I don't know if you know that. Humongous pop band, like one of the biggest, like in the late 70s with the Bengals and all those, that group that came up there. So I said, man, I go, we're dogging it, man.

I go, look, I love, Brian, I love doing this music, but I go, we gotta do more, man. We gotta, I gotta, you gotta put the pedal to the metal. And he's like, I will, I will, man.

And like, meanwhile, Rodney just dumped a few million in his bank account, you know. So it was like, wow. Now he's starting to get a little lazy, you know.

And he wasn't as hungry anymore. So I said, fuck this. I said, I'm gonna start writing some jokes.

So I started writing these jokes and, you know, and we even passed a few of them on to Rodney. I think I wrote the first seven for Rodney, you know, stuff like, ah, I went to the animal shelter today. I had to call my wife to bail me out, you know.

You know, and, you know, I showed my wife her burial plot, you know, and she looked at me and said, my burial plot, and she looked at me and said, great, when can I start digging, you know. I get no respect. And so I said, we sent them to Rodney.

He's like, yeah, man, I got the jokes from Billy. Yeah, they're good, man. Listen, I'm eating a cheese sandwich.

I'll call you back. So, so Brian and I, and I told Brian, I go, I got, I'm gonna do the standup, you know. And I felt kind of funny because I was like, you know, you know, your dad's a comedian and like, he didn't really have a good rapport with pops, you know.

So we, I started doing comedy at this, I went to this work gym. It was called the comedy gym. It was fucking great, man.

It was like, we just like nine of us, just 10 of us, 12 of us. It's all got together on a Sunday. And we had a great coach, Sam Cox from Austin, Texas.

And he would go over our jokes. And next thing you know, man, like within six weeks, I'm up in front of 300 people, man, at the comedy store in Austin, Texas, you know. And I'm doing like, you know, I was like the slacker musician who didn't want to work.

I just woke up today, I got in a fight with my girlfriend. She looked at me and said, why don't you get a job? And I said, me get a job? Then who's going to drive you to work, you know? And, you know, I was like the slacker musician, you know. I had some good jokes, you know, off the news and everything.

Then all of a sudden I'm like, I'm going to be a comedian, you know. So Brian says, he comes to me, he says, I can't do music anymore, man. I got stage fright.

And I'm like, oh, whatever, dude. I knew this was coming. So it was a shame though, because I honestly- Yeah, it was a shame.

Yeah. He was going to be the next like Don Henley, I swear to God. Yeah, if he could write music that well, he couldn't play in front of people, huh? Oh, he was just, yeah, he was just a genius.

Like made John Mayer look like, okay, you know what I'm saying? Was like right in that realm, man. Tom Petty meets Don Henley in a blender. And really disappointing.

And I have all the tapes that we did. I have about 12 songs. So anyway, next thing you know, I'm going to LA, man, because Brian wants to shut the music down.

So I'm going to LA. Now I'm a comedian out there. I remember I went to LA with like six grand in my pocket.

And I remember when I got out there for comedy, I was doing the Laugh Factory. And it was cool. I ran into some cats out there, you know, some pretty big cats.

And I was doing the same thing. I was in front of like, you know, wow, I'm in front of 400 people, you know, at six o'clock in the evening at the Laugh Factory. And then all of a sudden I'm like, hey, I got like $400 left to my name now.

I've been out here for three weeks. How the hell did that happen, right? And I just like blew through all my money. I mean, I hooked up with some chick, and like she had some place that she was paying $1,800 a month.

And I was like, I was never the guy that was like, hey, man, can I crash in your couch, honey? You know, I was never that guy. I know a lot of people think that. I was never that guy.

Can you feed me? Can you do this? Can you take care of me? I always paid my own way. So I had to pay $900 for rent, you know what I'm saying? Then I got sick of her. And then the comedy just, I came back and I said, you know what? This ain't really happening anymore.

I'm not into this comedy thing. And that's when I started writing The Devil, The Shakespeare. Then you get back into painting.

Painting is something I always did since I was 16. So I just, you know, yeah, I remember doing Waiting on Tables and then doing a painting in between. And it was like, just making so many mistakes when I was so young, you know? And like trying to get these guys to show up for jobs.

And these people from Blue Island, hey, we paint my house. I do stupid things like paint a whole house outside for like $900 or something, you know? Because I was living with mom in 1998 when I got back. So I remember it was like, I was like, but you know what? Like I said, it's like it taught me a lot though, you know? Like dealing with people and how to actually do this business.

So that was that. Yeah, that was that. And it was fun.

And you know, like I said, it's just one thing after another. And now it's like, I'm in a time right now where, you know, it's a shame that I got that drummer film in my closet. I've got the biggest drummers in the world.

Steve Jordan, Carmine Appesee, all of them on film. And I watched a couple of the trailers on YouTube. Oh, thank you.

Yeah, yeah. And I know you get some big names. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, Questlove is funny. Like Questlove came in and I'm like, who's this cat, you know? My producer was like, just interview him, man. He's going to be big, you know? I go, all right, whatever you think.

Freaking roots. I never heard of him, you know? So then, you know, I interviewed him and that was that. And I don't know.

I don't know. Maybe it's the timing or something like that. Like A&E was like, boom, hey, we love this, man.

We can do it. And then boom, here come the Kardashians, you know? We're reality television. And you know, nobody wants to listen to this shit now, you know? Talk about drummers, right? I'm surprised it never took off because, I mean, there's been movies about drummers.

I know, I know. Well, it's just the other thing, too, is that, you know what? It's like, and again, you know, Paul, like going back to your initial question, you know? It is a bullshit game, man, in Hollywood. I have so many bullshit artists come along, even, you know, on ferocious drummers.

Just so many cats that were like, you know, man, I can make this happen. We can do this. We can do that.

And then they write up this bullshit contract. You know, this is 90% mine. Here's 10 for you.

And I'm like, hey, wait a minute. I'm the guy that's got 150 grand in this freaking film, OK? Which I do, literally, cold cash. And, you know, I mean, I got that.

And then, you know, I got all these hours, you know, relentless hours. And, you know, it's weird. When I did the drummer film, I only told the drummers, I was talking to some of the biggest drummers in the world, you know, on the phone, like, God, talking to Simon Kirk, you know, in my backyard in Palos Heights and talking to Max Weinberg.

So, you know, you're kind of like everybody's coming at you with all this stuff and like, you know, oh, yeah, we're going to make this happen. And then it just gets to the point where it's like, man, I'm just so burnt out on bullshit dudes, you know? And like, I'm the biggest guy in the world. Like, let's do this, you know? What can we do? How do we do this, you know? So, you know, we have a joke between me and my, you know, couple of friends and stuff.

We always say, well, you know, the drummer film's going on like, I don't know, 12 years now, maybe it'll be more of a legendary legacy piece to go off of. But when I did it, you know, I just told the drummers, I didn't say, hey, I was in this band, Demals, because I was like, that's fucking bad luck. I'm not going to break their name off.

I'm just going to tell them I was a drummer on Atlantic Records. And if they want to Google us, they can Google me, you know? So, you know, and it's hard, too, because I was out of like the whole, what do you call it? The whole Hollywood bullshit. So it's like, you know, my name was Billy Dior, right? Right.

And I call people and it's like, you know, who's calling, please? And I'm like, you know, trying to call my ex, Rodie, who's like the VP of a label right now. And I'm like, Billy McCarthy, tell him it's Billy Dior. And it's like, she's all confused.

Like, and this is in regards to, I'm like, just get him on the phone. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's just, you know, L.A. is just, it's so, it's so bad.

It's like 10 times worse right now, though I really don't have any desire to enter into that, although I just signed with an agent like three months ago. Go ahead. Well, there's, there's records.

The record companies don't sign bands like they used to. I mean, that is gone by the wayside. Yeah, they don't sign bands at all.

I mean, I, if you guys like, you know, I don't know if you guys wanted a major record deal. You probably didn't because you guys are pretty stable. I can't see you guys out in L.A., M&R Rush, when you guys are 26, like eating ramen noodles.

You guys all had wives and girlfriends and stuff like that. But I was like amazed when I went out to L.A. and like when we went back in 85, it's like that's when it really started. 86, it started pouring on big time.

And that's when I was like, I can't believe nobody's out here, man. You can come out here and get a record deal in 48 hours if you're a pretty decent band. Yeah.

And I mean, I'm not kidding you. There was like this little playground circle, like the size of like Tinley Park and Oak Forest put together. And it was like every band that was in there, you knew there was only like five big gun bands in there, man, that can actually like chop it out and play good, you know.

So it was it was like they were just handing record deals out, you know, left and right, you know. And a lot of them were real shitty, but a lot of people didn't get signed that were really great, too. But, you know, I remember calling the label with, you know, calling my A&R guy and Chip was on the other line, Chip's Enough.

And I said, just be quiet. I'm going to call him. I'm going to call him right now.

And I said, so what'd you think of that Enough's Enough tape? And he was on 3-Way with my A&R guy. And he goes, I don't hear it, Billy. You know, I go, you don't hear what? He goes, after we had our deal with the malls.

He said, I don't hear any tunes. I go, you don't hear any tunes from Enough's Enough. I go, are you crazy? I go, Nick, you couldn't hear a train wreck if it came through your wall, man.

I said, these guys are great, you know. And he goes, I don't hear it, Billy. And they eventually got signed by Alco, you know, which was upstairs.

And things happened. Well, I know we got told we should be more like a like a flock of seagulls. Oh, you guys were told that? Yeah.

Yeah. OK. OK.

Yeah. I'm like, OK. Is that what we do, you know? I don't know, man.

It's just, you know, and, you know, I don't know. It's just like when you guys came on stage, it was like just a whole thing. It was like, you know, you had, you know, just everything going on.

You know what I mean? It was like a big, it was a bigger than life band, you know. And like, I was totally obsolete. Not because it was like, oh, you know, screw you guys.

We don't care what you guys are doing. I had no idea what was going on in Chicago from like 84 or 81, actually, until like 89. I didn't have any idea what was going on in Chicago.

I mean, like we were just like I was just jumping from like the one band to the other. And then, you know, I was in that band briefly with ZZ DeVille. We were in a band called Screamin' Mimi.

And then he left and he talked dirty to me with them. And the rest is history with Poison. But, you know, it's pretty funny.

I was actually the first drummer to play that song, you know. And I remember when we used to get done with rehearsal and it would be like, well, what do you want to do now? And it'd be like, well, let's do Talk Dirty to Me and then go home, you know. If anybody doesn't know about the malls that you guys wore women's clothing or women's lingerie, how did you explain this? Why and how did it all come about? Yeah, it was weird.

It was like Desi, Dwayne and Desi. Desi and I, we had a couple of rounds before we got, you know, I went into the malls, you know. We had a couple of rounds.

Like he was in Kid Rocker for a while. He was one of the guitar players. It was pretty funny.

Along with, you know, Rodney Yunkins and who the hell else knows, you know, was in that band. Probably Nils Lofgren, whatever. And we just didn't know.

I'm just kidding. But so Desi was, yeah, he was a guitar player in Kid Rocker. And then, you know, I remember it was, I was talking to Chip and he's like, well, Desi's in town too.

And I go, oh, really? What the fuck's he doing? You know, can I say fuck on here? Oh, sure. I don't want to sound like Dave Grohl, you know. So I go, he goes, you know, Desi's in town too.

And I just got back from L.A. And with CeCe, like we were done with Screamin' Memes. I was like, you know what, dude? I love you. He's like, I love you too, man.

And we just said, we can't find a singer, man. So we had to split up, you know. I said, I'll see you later.

That was when I was playing with Desi Stratton from Guns N' Roses right before, for like three weeks. I was in a band with him. And then, you know, I was like, you know, I always wonder, like, if I would have just stuck it out, you know, and stuck with him, I might have been in GNR.

Who knows? That's another story. So anyway, so Desi comes and he shows up in Calumet Park and he's really fucking flamboyant. He's got the blonde hair.

And he's like, what's happening, daddy-o? You know, it's, you know, swankiness, you know. And I'm like, what's going on with you? And he just had a shitload of money. Well, his dad passed away.

And I'm really sorry about that. But I mean, he got like, he was taking over some buildings or something like that. Anyway, he had a Cadillac and a lot of money.

He would pull over all the time. He's like, so I got this band. But he wasn't Desi at the time, right? Pardon me? He wasn't Desi at the time, right? No, yeah, he was.

He was Desi. Yeah, he was Desi Wex. Yeah, I think he was Desi Wex.

He wasn't Dwayne, that's for sure. But anyway, he's like, I got this band. And I'm like, OK.

And then I'm like, you know, well, I'll come to rehearsal with you, you know. I think he knew that, you know, like, you know, I was out in L.A. with him. And, you know, he promised me to go to L.A. and screwed me over.

And I made it out there on my own. I was actually once recruited. So I think he knew, like, you know, Billy's got some game going on.

And I had a little bit. So if we put our shit together, we can make something happen here. So we took a nice, we went out for pizza that night, I remember it.

And we, you know, I said, I'll come down to rehearsal. And I went down to rehearsal. And I saw the band.

And Lizzy was there, the bass player. He was just incredible. He was like 18 years old or 17.

I don't know, just fucking really good, like a great bass player. He's like, hey, I know you, man. He goes, I heard all about you.

And he's like, he loved Kid Rocker. A couple of people in Chicago knew about Kid Rocker. Because they heard all the buzz and stuff, like Beck here.

So anyway, I make a long. So anyway, we got together. And I told Desi, I go, I think the band's really good.

I go, you kind of sound like Aerosmith. And I didn't tell him I fucking hate Aerosmith. You know, I'm not really a fan of Aerosmith, I gotta be honest with you.

I'll take cheap trick and, you know, the raspberries any day. So anyway, I was like, you know, your band's good, man. What are you guys going to do? He goes, well, I think we're going to do this and that, and this and that, and this and that.

I said, well, you need me in the band if you're going to do that. I go, because I can make it fucking happen, you know. And he's like, you can, huh? I go, yeah.

I go, you know, your drummer's a nice guy. I go, but, you know, you need to get rid of him. Because you need to put something in with fire, you know.

We need to make this thing blow up. So anyway, we got the ball rolling. And it was just, you know, making phone calls, getting everything going on, you know.

And then next thing you know, like, we just, we said, we're going to rehearse really hard. And we're going to play the limelight. So we played the limelight.

I made some phone calls. I was acting like I was a road manager, Billy McCarthy. You should hear these guys.

They got this drummer named Billy Dior. And this guy, Dezzy, you know. And everybody was buying into all this bullshit on the phone that I was doing, right? Even Ken Anime from Cheap Trick, I called him up.

Because if you can't promote yourself, you can't promote yourself, right? I mean, you can't promote, right? I remember talking to Ken. Yeah, I go, you got to hear this band. I go, yeah.

I go, this is Billy. I go, Billy McCarthy, the road manager for this band The Malls. He goes, send me a tape.

Send me a tape. I go, I'm not sending you a tape. He goes, send me a tape.

I got to go. And he hung up on me. And Ken and I would become pretty good friends, like, you know, five years later, you know.

And he'd manage me for a little bit. So we got the band together. And then we said, like, we did the limelight, you know.

And it was sold out. It was 1,600 people. Because we were wearing the women's, that's what I told them.

I go, what's up with this women's lingerie? I go, you know what? It's pretty freaking crazy, you know. How about if I wear a suit, though, with a tie, you know. And then you guys can wear the lingerie.

Because I'm the drummer in the back. And they're like, that's not going to work. And I'm like, because I'm going to get the shit kicked out of me.

I came from a tough neighborhood, right? And they're like, just put the lingerie on. So I put the lingerie on. And like I said in the book, we didn't, like, parade around town, downtown.

We never, we only wore the lingerie. Because DeMalls was, Amal was a gangster's mistress, okay. That was a slum back in the roaring 20s.

During, you know, the gangster era. So DeMalls, Desi stole that from Da Thumbs, you know, Da Viz, Da Bears. So we called it DeMalls.

And I remember my dad, he was Irish. And he's like, and Lizzie's like, yeah, you should check out our band. We wear dresses and shit, Mr. McCarthy.

My dad's like, why? He goes, you're a fruitcake, you know. And so anyway, we got, yeah, that's what happened, man. It was like a shock value.

But then, like I said, you know, it was kind of weird. Because it was like, okay, this is kind of a cool, shocking kind of thing to do. But.

And people expected it. People probably expected it, right? Yeah, but you know who dug it? Chicks. We did it out in LA.

When we got to LA, it was like, whoa, look at these fucking guys, man, you know. Because, I mean, we sounded great. I mean, we were like more androgynous than the New York Dolls.

You know, we played 10 times better than them. They couldn't play their fucking instruments to save them, sorry. But, you know, we were really, really good performers.

And that's why the people down at the studio where we used to rehearse at downtown, I forgot the name of it, Don and somebody else. It was a famous studio downtown. They said, you guys got to take that trash shit off.

Because you guys sound really good. You guys are a really good band. You got that swankiness like Errol Smith, you know.

And so if you think about it, then it became a factor. We actually had a problem. We had too many chicks at our gig in LA.

We had too many chicks showing up. And it was like, it started to register. What fucking high school kid's going to go home and be like, I got to go see this band in drag that wears dresses? You know what I mean? That's not smart, right? That ain't cool, right? So then we started, we just stripped it all down.

We dropped the lingerie. It was really uncomfortable. We only did three shows or four shows with the lingerie.

It became, or it became, and we would jump out of a limo. We had to roll by like boxers. We'd go through the crowd.

And then we'd get off stage, jump back in the limo, go to our street clothes and go in the club, you know. And drink up and think that we're just like fucking Kiss. You know what I mean? Nobody knows who we are, you know.

We just got done playing next door at Gazzaris and Roxy and this and that. But it was like, it worked, man. It worked.

The buzz worked really hard. It was one of those things where our manager, I bless him, Jerry Tallman, my late manager, he managed to grow up to stills Nash. He said, come on, guys.

He goes, you know, just drop the lingerie shit, man. Be a rock band, you know. And we did.

And it was much better. It was much more comfortable. But then as soon as we did that shit, it was like just fucking dirty, nasty shit started happening within the band, you know.

Just like, just finding out all this disloyalty and stuff like that. And it was just like, you know, again, I don't want to be a pisser or anything like that. It was just like, you know, I think we thought we were too fucking good that it was just going to happen, you know, regardless.

I mean, we broke up before our first album came out. The masters were done. We should have got dumped.

They should have said, fuck you guys, man. You guys are not a headache. You guys got an album out of us for like 150,000 bucks.

You know what I'm saying? And you're going to sit here and bitch and get in a fight. You know, Desi wanted to kick me out. And then the other two guys said, he wants to kick you out, but we want to kick him out.

So fuck him. So then it was a Polish standoff, as they say. Right.

And he was rehearsing in one room with three guys, you know, Mick Sweden from the Bullet Boys was in there playing with him. And who would be in the Bullet Boys a year later. And then we'd go in there with our band and we'd start auditioning all these fucking weirdos that would come down and try to sing them all songs, you know.

And it just wasn't working. And it was finally like, we just loved each other so much. We hated each other.

But that anger was that thing that when we were on stage, it just fucking blew up, you know, and nobody got to see that because we only played in Chicago twice, two times at the Riviera and then once at the Limelight. So oh, we played the Thirsty Whale, too, for a weekend for two days. And that was it.

Now, before the Limelight show, you said that's your first show. You guys had a lot of notoriety prior to that. Um, no, they only they did like they did a gig down at the Cubby Bear, maybe, you know, it wasn't anything like not not that kind of notoriety.

It was there was like a little buzz going on. Do you know what I'm saying? Right. It was a little buzz, but it was very tiny.

They did a gig over at Haywires and it turned out to be OK. But the thing that blew the gig up in at the Limelight, though, Ray was we went to at the FedEx. We had our thing going on where we all dressed up in our street clothes and we'd go to Rush Street.

And it's true. Everything that I put in that book, you know, we would sit down and we'd be all dialed up and we look like Hanoi Rocks meets Motley Crue in street clothes, you know. And people would say, where are you guys from? And we'd say L.A. and it'd be like, wow.

And I swear on my dad's grave, there was 150 to 200 people packed up against our thing, passing napkins over. We didn't tell them we were Motley Crue. We just said we're DeMalls.

And they're like, the who? You know, and and and we would sign autographs and literally had to go out the back door and go to we'd go to faces. We had a lot of pre hype stuff going on. And then we went to WLS at the Babbix and somebody was there.

I think it was Larry Lujak, one of those guys that was really big. And Tammy Edwards. Yeah, you know, those guys in the in the in the middle 80s.

And we got on air and we said, hey, we're playing the limelight. And it was huge. Back then, if you said something on WLS like that.

Yeah, it was gospel. Yeah. No.

So we went out there and it must have been about, you know, I would say easily about 100 people from Kelly Park were there, you know. So, you know, we had good loyalty there on the South Side. But then after we got done with that gig, we made a decision before.

I said, I said, listen, we're going to go out to L.A. after this gig. We can we can sit around, guys, and we could be big fish. You know, we can go downtown and play another gig and everybody could be all happy.

I said, I say we leave it right now. Let's go. Let's go out to L.A. We're going to get a deal.

Sure enough, we got out to L.A. We did our demo. And while we were in the studio mixing down the demo, Sean and I went next door to a bar, picked up two chicks, brought them back. And they happened to be with the A&R guy who was with them.

And he came out of the bathroom after doing, I don't know, some blow or something like that. And they said, well, the girls you were with went next door to Westlake Studio. So he comes barging in.

He's like, let's go. And then Desi said, hey, you want to hear our shit, man? He's like, fuck you. I don't, you know.

And then boom, all of a sudden it came over loudspeakers and it just blew the shit out of him. And he started lighting up a cigarette and walking around. He's like, what's the name of your band? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then one thing led to another. But we didn't sign a deal until six months later. But, you know, and then we started, you know, other companies started courting us.

You get in a pretty good detail in the book. Of course, we're talking about Billy McCarthy from Beat Me Till I'm Famous, a book about the malls and about the record business in the 80s in L.A. and Hollywood. And and you get in a pretty good detail.

How do you remember some of those names? And I mean, did you did you take a journal at the time or no? No, I didn't. It was weird. I just I thought I thought I couldn't do that.

I don't I don't remember, you know, who I met yesterday for lunch. Yeah, I know. Me neither.

Right. Exactly. I do that shit all the time.

You know, I don't have lunch. No, I just I have this. It's it's it's it was like a weird, weird, strange thing.

I mean, like, you know, Desi and I would you know, we were brothers, you know, we you know, I mean, you know, I love the guy. I mean, in a sense, you know, I don't hate him or anything like that. But like he's always tell me, man, fucking Billy, you know, you always remember shit from like so many years ago before the book, of course, you know, and I have an uncanny ability to do that, which is weird, you know, and I just remember like everything like that that happens, you know, like the sequence of events that that happened in the book.

But yeah, that whole memory thing is it was I knew the events really well. Yeah, I really do. Lizzie will call me up all the time.

My bass player. I still talk to Lizzie on a regular basis. And he'll say stuff like, you know, hey, you remember that time when we you know, there was a cat that came in the room and and then the dog.

And I'm like, that never happened. He's like, you don't remember that? I go, no, I don't remember that. You know, I don't remember like certain things that other people remember.

But no, everything that I put in the book is is basically, you know, how it all went down, you know, it basically just all went down like that. It's quite a time, man. You know, don't don't they'll never be another time like that.

You know, so if we if we include some of the music, what would you want to hear? I would I would I would definitely there's there's so many tracks off of work that I love. I like I like my life. I like down to nothing.

I like the answer. The answer is a real funk kind of a groove, you know, like it's got a really good pocket at it. And I think, you know, the jam was, you know, and Desi wrote this all by himself.

I got to give him credit for that. He wrote This Time It's Love. And, you know, that was a hit.

You know, it was a ballad. It was one of those sappy ballads, you know, you know, about everybody. Every band needs a sappy ballad.

I'm telling you, you know, and yeah. And then, you know, I think like that's the other thing that happened with the band, though. I mean, in defense of the fact that we all fought and everything like brothers and it was like a brother fight thing to, you know, the Atlantic Records just picked the wrong single man.

Seven, seven, seven. It's just such bullshit. I remember we came back from lunch and I was like, I got an idea, man, you know, and I wrote the freaking song, you know, I can't.

It's the biggest mistake I probably ever made because I wanted it to be like Queen meets Billy Squire. And it came out like really funky shit, you know, and Doug Morris, the president of Atlantic was like, I got to have this song. It's going to work.

Watch, you know, and it fucking tanked so hard. And there was nothing about what we were about. If we would have released Rally Baby from the first album or The Stroll, which still gets played on Sirius, you know, radio, they still play it.

I mean, I'm driving down the street, you know, the other day and I'm, you know, blowing The Strolls on, you know, it's no big fucking deal, though, you know, I don't really care, you know, but it's like it was still like, you know, in that kind of a genre thing. But we're pretty much like over under underrated. I mean, as far as the 80s go and like when they mention all the glam bands and everything, I'm always like kind of in the back of my mind, like, OK, so you're going to talk about Pretty Boy Floyd and all these fuck bands, you know, and, you know, it's like what nobody talks about the malls, you know, who set the bar.

We were the first band to ever sell out when we got to L.A. and we continue doing it, you know, but we still get respect from like, you know, the Faster Pussycats and stuff. They're cool cats, you know, like we still, you know, we're still in that circle. But I always thought the malls always got the short end of it because we were so what do you call that? Obscure, like we stayed within.

We didn't we didn't really over socialize. We kind of put like a box around us on purpose because we wanted that mystique. We didn't want to be like, you know, we weren't like egotistic, ego, egotistical monsters like we don't want to hang out with you.

It was more or less like we got to keep this mystique, you know, and we had it down with science. Like when we got up, four of us would walk in a club together. Two of us would go to the bathroom.

The other two stay seated. You know, don't let anybody sit in between you. You know, it was down with science.

I got all of that from Bill O'Coin, who managed Kiss. You know, he taught me how to be like, you know, if you want to be a fucking star, this is the way you got to do it as a band, you know, and you're going to have the biggest impact. So we did it and it didn't work.

Well, you come pretty dang close, though. Pardon me? You came pretty close. Yeah, we came.

Yeah, we came. We came pretty close. You know, it wasn't it wasn't bad, you know, and or any of the other band members still playing with anybody or.

Well, yeah, it's ironic you said that because Desi, they got Desi as a band with some guys and they call it the malls. And, you know, we wish that they wouldn't call it the malls. When I say we, me and Lizzie, Lizzie owns a copyright to it.

So he could technically slam anybody out that wants to use the name. I don't know if he is or not. But yeah, you know, does he plays his gig under the malls? I wish he wouldn't do that.

I really I really despise people who do that. Like, you know, where's he playing it in Chicago or around? They're playing the Whiskey A Go Go in August, you know, and, you know, which is fine. It's like we, you know, they're not going to sell it out.

Probably they won't even come close to it, actually, because like, you know, we used to what we used to do. But, you know, I know he wants to play. I just wish you'd call it Desi Rex in a solo band or whatever, because it's not representative of the malls whatsoever.

I mean, yeah, they make it through the songs and everything. But the malls was a special kind of a band that like only the four of us could really make it happen. And it's like it's just one of those things, you know.

Once you have that band, you have that band and it's something that stays with you forever. I would just like like, you know, Desi to respect the whole, you know, thing about the malls, you know, because it's like we were unique in a sense that, you know, we weren't one of those bands where like, you know, we struggled along and everything. It's like we got to L.A. and pow, you know, that was it, you know, and it kept going, you know, and it was really strong until the end.

It's only when we went on tour, actually, we didn't have any support that we did like some weird gigs, you know, like I remember playing Cincinnati in front of 14 people and Warrant was there opening for us, you know. So it was weird. There was some weird things there, you know, but L.A. was ours, you know, for the taking.

There was nobody that outplayed us or anything like that. And I'm not trying to be braggadocious or anything like that, but we had a really good, solid freaking band. You still got your drum set up somewhere? I got it, man.

I got it set up. It's called McCarthy Road. And I get like, we do the best of like, we do deep cuts.

We do like Petty, you know, Leave Virginia Alone. We do Cabin Down the Road. We do Paul McCartney.

We do the Wilburys. We play out like twice a year. That's it.

That's maybe, maybe probably like at the most twice a year, probably once a year. But I'll tell you, man, when we played, it was an event. Like we just, we only played Blarney Stone.

That's our favorite venue. I'd love to show you guys, just pretty, hopefully we can cross paths and do that. But we have a nine piece band, three singers, just a bunch of the best musicians that I can get.

You know, we want to keep, we want to do the, what do you call it? The organic stuff, you know, we do that, you know, because it's like this stuff you guys are doing, it requires, it's so much rehearsing, you know what I mean? It's like, there's a lot of parts. No, this stuff is more organic and it's like, it's got an acoustic bed to it. You know, we have special people come up and play and stuff and sing.

And it's a good time. We did a gig in November at Blarney Stone. It was really good.

And we all got COVID afterwards. Yeah. You have anything planned, any gig planned right now or? Um, no, I usually just wait around, you know, uh, like probably April or something to start putting something out there.

You know, we were playing a lot with Sean and Charlie, all the gigs, the last, last three gigs in the last two years that we did was with Sean and Charlie. Those guys are fantastic. A couple of great guys.

And we really mesh well together. Our set with theirs, um, and just the nicest guys in the world, man, you know? Well, how do, how do, how do we find you on Facebook or on a website or anything? Yeah, I've got a, no, I don't have a website. I've got a, um, well, I've got three pages.

I've got McCarthy painting up there on one page on Facebook. That's really sexy. Don't get on.

And then I've got, uh, I got beat me till I'm famous. That's my one page. Um, you can get the book, beat me till I'm famous on Amazon.

I just lowered the hell out of the discount. You know, I, I think I make, I don't, I don't really make that much money off it. And I didn't put it out to make money, you know? Um, so I got beat me till I'm famous is on Facebook, uh, the painting page and my personal page, which I'm always, I'm always having people, you know, yeah, my personal page, you know, it's no big deal.

I mean, I already spilled my guts. Everybody knows everything about me already. I don't know why the hell I would even write a book sometimes I think, and let everybody know all the bullshit mistakes I made when I was younger, you know what I'm saying? How freaking, you know, uh, terrible I was.

So, you know, like just, I mean, speaking words of wisdom to the younger generation, right? Don't do what I did. Right. That's what I was doing, man.

I was just trying to know, honestly. I mean, I, I did, when I did write the book to, to, you know, give people some hope, man, and say like, you know, man, just because you didn't, you know, you didn't make it, man, but you know what? Don't be angry about it, man. Look what I did.

And I started my ass off and I still didn't make it, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's why I wrote it. It wasn't about like, you know, I'm going to write about me and tell you how interesting my life is. I, I wrote it to where if you're from Chicago, you can actually relate to the book because you, you know, most of the people in there and it takes you on this journey from small town America, which it was Calumet Park right into the, you know, big shit of like, you know, LA, you know? And, you know, that's all it was meant to do.

And at the time when I was doing it, man, it was like, I had no idea what the hell was going on. It was just like, this is just supposed to happen, man, you know? And, you know, it's going to fucking happen, man. Right.

Fuck, it didn't happen, you know? And then you get tired. Not without trying, though. Not without trying.

Not without trying. You're right. You're right.

So, so yeah, that's, that's what it is. And the book's doing well on Amazon. It was a, it was a hundred bestseller when it came out.

It was a top 100 autobiography for about a couple of days. We still get the hundred, though. Still get the top hundred.

And it's, it's doing, it's doing good now. So, you know, I'm just grateful to still be here. Well, the book is called Beat Me Till I'm Famous.

Your second book, your first book was Devil of Shakespeare, which I'll have to pick up now and read that. And yeah, a lot of vile stuff in that book. But yeah, thank you.

Yeah. So it's all good, you know? Well, we appreciate you joining us today, Billy. And, and talking with us and, and spilling your guts.

Hey, man. It's, yeah, it's been a delightful interview. I really, really appreciate it.

I don't do these, you know, by the way. I never, I, this is the first one I've done in like probably three years, you know. Well, you know, we're the Rock and Roll Chicago podcast.

And we talk to rock and rollers and band members and musicians from the Chicago area. And you obviously fit that bill. So thank you so much.

It's been a pleasure, guys. Thanks, Billy. Thanks, Billy.

All right. Thank you. We'll talk to you soon.

So that was Billy McCarthy of the malls and the author of Beat Me Till I'm Famous. He found out he's also, he's also a comedian, a producer. He produced some, some records for some songs for, for some other people.

And yeah, documentary about documentary, but yeah, it still hasn't come out yet. But, but hopefully he gets that out soon. I'd love to see that.

Yeah. We'd have to, we'll have to sit him down and see what we could do to get him to put it out. Get Netflix involved with that.

I think that's definitely, that'd be awesome. That'd be, it sounds like it'd be an awesome movie. Yeah.

But yeah, he, uh, apparently he doesn't care for ramen noodles anymore, but, uh, Actually his head is full of them. I'm sure. I'm sure.

I mean, come on. Those things are what? 10 cents a pack back in the day. I mean, and they'd fill you up.

I think they're still only 10 cents a pack. They might be. I haven't had any in a long time, but I remember eating those things and they'd fill you up.

It's all you wanted. Something in your stomach. There's some great stories.

Yes, they were. Yes, he does. He's got some great stories in the book.

I can't recommend it enough people to get out there and get beat me till I'm famous. The story of a drummer in Chicago who moved to LA and talks about the music business. Every musician should read, should read this book as well.

Especially if you're from Chicago. I read the book. Paul even read the book and Paul doesn't usually read.

No, I don't. I like short stories like, like, you know, something I can read in five minutes. Reader's digest.

Yeah, the reader's digest versions. But I read the book and it's great. And, and I recommend to get out there.

So you get beat me till I'm famous by Billy McCarthy. Sounds good to me. Get it on Amazon.

That's right. We want to thank Billy for joining us. And, and, and we had some fun with Billy.

He's a, he's an interesting guy. Yeah, we should, we should figure out how many drummers we've actually talked to. Yeah, we've talked to a lot of drummers.

Quite a few. We're, we're, we lean towards drummers. I don't know why.

Maybe because they never say anything. They're always in the back, quietly beating their drums. And, but they have a lot to say.

They do have a lot to say. We've talked to quite a few drummers. Some of them had to have two parts.

Yes. Well, see you guys next week. Don't forget to check us out on Facebook, Rock and Roll Podcast, rockandrollchicagopodcast.com. Right.

I'll do that. I'll check you out. Thanks for listening, everybody.

We'll see you soon. Thank you. See you later.

Rock and Roll Chicago Podcast does not own the rights to any of the music that's played on this podcast. The music is used to promote the band or musicians that are interviewed.