Hey, this is Paul Reitman. And Ray the Roadie. For the Rock and Roll Chicago podcast.

How you doing today, Ray? I'm doing well, Paul. I don't think you've been real kind to me lately. I don't know, I've just been getting some weird feelings that you haven't been that kind to me.

Well, I have to be cruel to be kind. I suppose. I suppose you do.

I suppose you do. Wait, what song is that by? That song is by The Kind? No, no, no it's not. Cruel to be kind? I don't know.

Cruel to be kind in the right places or whatever. Yeah, you can get this album next week on KTEL. Yeah, yeah.

Now I'm going to have to see who wrote that song. Yeah, it's Nick Lowe. Oh, yeah, Nick Lowe.

Yeah, he's from Chicago. Yeah, I don't think so. Not.

Nah, oh well. How do we get off on this tangent anyway? I don't know. I don't know.

So what do we got up this week? What do we got coming up? We have The Kind, oddly enough. The Kind. Oh my God, you're kidding me.

Wow. I just said that too. That's strange.

I mean, I must have psychic powers. Yeah, I think you do. I think so.

I think so. Well, why don't we take a listen and hear what Frank has to say. Let's do that right now.

Thanks. Hey, this is Paul Martin. And Ray the Roadie.

With the Rock and Roll Chicago podcast. Joining us this week is Frank Capek of Chicago's very own The Kind. How's it going, Frank? Pretty good, guys.

How about you guys? Great. Good to see you. Good to see you.

Thank you. Good to be here, guys. How you been? I hear you had a little hip work done recently.

Just got a hip replacement. It's been eight weeks. Going to therapy.

Everything's great. Excellent. I'm so happy.

No pain. Everything's good. Good for you.

Yeah, I'm right there with you. Paul, you would know. You've got both ears done.

And I'll probably be the next guy. I hope so. Hopefully not.

But it works. That stuff works, man. So tell us a little bit about The Kind and how the band gets started and where it evolved from.

Okay. I think it was... The Kind was together when I heard about them. I think it was either early 79, I think, or late 78, I can't quite remember.

There was a contest, a KQX contest, songwriting contest or band thing, and they won it. So the bass player from The Kind told me... The bass player that I was in Lovecraft with told me about it. He goes, Frank from The Kind's doing auditions.

So he pulled me along and we both did it. And so we got involved in it. This bass player was... I was in Lovecraft, and so was the bass player.

And who was that? It was Mark Gardner. Mark Gardner. Okay.

So we ended up doing the audition. We got in, and I found out they had won the KQX contest. It's a hometown album, I think.

Yes, it was that. KQX hometown album. They had a couple of songs on the record or something like that.

So we get involved, and then we look for a drummer, and we end up getting Frank Soberno. So it ended up being three Franks and a Mark in the band, which is kind of crazy. So what had happened was a gentleman named Mike Scheid, who was an independent record promoter back in those days with Roy Chivari, they were judges of the contest.

So Mike Scheid really liked Frank and his songwriting, blah, blah, blah. Now Frank... Frank Jelovic was the main guy who was the singer and songwriter. So he wrote the music, and he submitted the music to WKQX, right? I think so.

Okay. So, I mean, eventually we were all kind of writing with him, but he was the main guy. So Mike Scheid took a liking to Frank and wanted to manage him.

So when me and Mark got in it, Mike Scheid was the manager, and he had a lot of instant radio stations, blah, blah, blah. So we found the drummer, got it together and started playing, and we were trying to get a record deal, and nothing was happening. So we kept doing it, and then we decided, well, if we can't get a record deal, let's start our own record company.

So we started 360 Records, Mike Scheid helped us with it, which a lot of bands did at that time. They weren't quite doing it yet. Oh, okay.

We were like in the earlier times of doing that. So we started our own record company. We got our own signing.

So then through Mike's connections, we were allowed to get on the radio, a lot of XRT, what is it, The Loop, and other stations, but if you're on, you have to get some kind of response to the record, otherwise you can't stay on it. So out of luck, we were able to stay on it. So we decided to put our own record out, and we did, and from the first day, I remember we were playing clubs, making $300 for the whole band.

So the record comes out, say, on a Monday. By Friday, we were making two grand. It was like a line out the door.

So we were saying, we don't want a fee, we want the door, and they all fell for it, until they realized how much we were making, and then they stopped it. So things were rolling well. We charted on LS.

We got up to like $14, and we were able to do a ton of concerts. We opened up, let's see, we played, we opened up for Duran Duran at the Rosemont Two Nights, sold out. That was exciting.

Man, holy cow. It's pretty heavy. Then we played with ZZ Top at Poplar Creek, with Robert Palmer, a lot of gigs with the Romantics, Off-Broadway, Cheap Trick.

So we were able to get in this thing, and everything was going great. We were refinancing our own record. So at one point, we decided to do the second record.

And in the meantime, from the first to the second record, all the politics changed on the radio. So it was very hard to get our songs on the radio after we finally did the record, because it was a big delay. And when we got it finished, we were really having a rough time getting airplayed.

And we were still playing, and we just played it out to a point where it already had peaked, it seemed like. And this was over a couple years. And so the band eventually broke up, but we never even called each other.

We knew it instinctively. The other thing about that band was, I had lived in LA, I was in a band called Lovecraft. We had a record.

When that thing fell apart, we did a tour with the Isle of Players, KC, the Sunshine Band, all that stuff. And then once that fell apart, we came back to Chicago, me and Mike Tegza, and we put another version of that band together. That's when Mark Gardner got in the band.

We did a version of it. We did gigs around. Actually before that, we had another version, and we went all over the country.

This was like the 70s, right? This was the 70s, right, from 76 all the way to like 78, because we got the record deal in 75. I lived in LA for a year until 76. So when that version of the band broke up, that's when we got the guys from Chicago, we got Mark Gardner, and we gave it a run for a few months, six months, whatever it was.

And that thing folded. And that's what Mark had found out about Frank Jellicum, the guy looking for musicians. So that's how the thing came together.

And I have to say, I've never been in a band with a bunch of easygoing guys in my life. I was like whacked out from all these years on the road. Like you could say that black shirt, you couldn't go, that's a black shirt.

I'm going to go, I don't trust you, man. It might not be. That's how whacked I was.

I was like, so these guys were so common sense people, easygoing. So the kind it was a pleasure to be with. We never got in an argument.

And all the years we played, it brought me back down to planet Earth. It was so cool for me, personally. And we got to play all these gigs.

I trust all the people in the business. Now Mike Scheid, who was our manager, he went to Sony, he was their top exec. He had the whole Midwest.

So he got East Coast, West Coast, and the Midwest. Mike Scheid gets your record on the radio for years. He worked Capitol.

He worked for Warner Brothers. He's got the Midwest down. So he ended up going to Sony.

He was their main guy for the whole Midwest. And he retired last year only to be rehired because they were paying too much money. So he's still got Bieber.

He's got Springsteen. He's got the Stones. He's got Nelly Fatani.

And of course, he's got to get his daughter Bieber tickets, or he's dead. But I've never met a guy I trusted in the business except him. I mean, the guy, I love the guy.

To this day, he's so good to the band The Kind. He really gave us a shot. But you had to have credibility to get people that liked it.

So we would cross our fingers, and it worked. So it helped when we had all our friends calling in. The Kind, did you just perform around the Midwest, or did you guys go national? I thought you went national.

We never went national, believe it or not. We played the college circuit out of state. So we did tons of colleges.

It was a great time, man. And we did a lot of concerts, man. We played with just a ton of bands from that era.

I kind of remember all of them. We played with Ian Hunter, The Romantics a ton of times. We did Survivor gigs.

We did gigs with the Go-Go's, Loverboy. So a lot of gigs, man. We never went national.

How long did The Kind last, then? So let's see. We started, let's say we started in 79. And it probably took a year plus to get any kind of record.

So it was somewhere close to 81, put out the record. Then the next year, we put out the first one, The Kind. Yeah, The Kind.

They both said The Kind. One was blue, one was red. Well, the other one was called Pain and Pleasure.

Oh, Pain and Pleasure, right, duh. Second album, right? Shellshock, man. Shellshock and all that coffee.

So yeah, so I think it was close to 81, the first record. And then it was late 82, the second one. And we played it out probably till 84, possibly even a little later.

I could be wrong with the dates. It could be 81 we started with the record, and then sort of late 82, 83 with the second record. And I know by 85, we just slowly disbanded.

But we never had an argument. The guys are cool. The most easygoing band I've ever been with.

Yeah, I remember you guys coming out to a noodle show at PG Flaherty's and getting up and doing a song with us or something. So we didn't start until 84, April of 84. Yeah, we made it to 85.

85, yeah, it might have been early 85 or late 84 or something like that. So I could be off on the first record. I never thought about it too much.

But it was a great time. And I was able to play with these bigger bands. It was such a rush, man.

We got in that. And I'll tell you this. You've seen that thing where Elvis Presley gets off a big show, and they go, Elvis has left the building.

And I'm walking on the stage. I'll tell you a story about the Rosemonts with Duran Duran. I'm going, we played a couple of big stages.

So it doesn't feel like my friend, like you're the other guitar player. You're down the block. I got my monitors fixed finally.

The first few of those type of gigs, it was really weird. So we're walking. They go like this, so it's sold out.

So we hear all these people clapping. They're going, let's go. And I'm going, oh my god.

I know what Elvis felt like coming up to that stage, man. I mean, it was such a rush. It blew my mind.

So we're walking up to the stage, and people are going nuts. And I'm thinking, I hope they don't think we're Duran Duran. We're the opening band.

So as we walk up on stage, my guitar roadie's standing there. And he's a big dude with my guitars. His nose is broken, and he's gushing blood.

So this is what's happened. Now here's my theory. I don't want to get too politically incorrect.

But I have a good friend of mine that lived in London. And I was able, his name is Joe Jammer. Joe Jammer worked with Zeppelin.

He worked with everybody. Through my friend Joe, I met all these British bands. And I hung out with them, as well as the road crews.

And I want to explain something about British road crews. They're rough on Americans. So we had previously been set up.

Everything was cool with everybody. Right before we came on stage, the road manager of Duran Duran decides he's in a bad mood. So he goes to my guitar guy, who's got both of my guitars.

This is five minutes before we're walking on. He's going, get your shit out of here right now. And my guy, who's huge, goes, what? He goes, I said, get your effing shit out of here now.

He goes, what do you mean? So he grabs my guitar guy and headbutts him and breaks his nose. So as we go up on stage, he goes like this. We'll get him.

So should we continue? Yeah, sure. You want to hear the rest of the story? Yeah, definitely. I was so ticked off.

In other words, he didn't retaliate for the benefit of the show. What a trooper. So we played the show.

Everything went great. And after the show, with the road crew, we went gunner for this guy. So word must have got out, because we busted into their room in the back.

And those guys took off. But I was so ticked off that he busted his nose like out of the blue for nothing. And my guy didn't even retaliate.

He's a big hockey player, and he could have killed him. But anyways, the moral of the story is beware of these, you know, sometimes these road crews from other countries can be pretty condescending on other musicians. But you know how opening acts are.

They're the brunt, you know? Yeah, that's right. So everything worked out. We found a couple of square feet out in front of the stage.

Yeah, so everything worked out fine. I think, OK, so the second night we played, here's another, this is interesting for me. I'm not really a singer, but I sing one song in the set.

So in the second night, I remember, it's like, oh my god, it's another Russian on it. And I always say, just look over their heads, you know what I mean? So I have to sing a song. And as I went to sing the song, I hit the mic, and it was like this explosion.

I saw a blue flash. It numbed my face. So to this, I got shocked so bad.

I ended up doing it. Did it knock you down? What? Did it knock you down? It did knock me down, but my head was numb. My whole face.

So to this day, everybody goes, get up on the mic. And I go, not me, baby. I'll put the screen on it, but I've still got this feeling.

I think it was really, it really hurt bad. And my whole face was numb for the whole night. It was like, I saw a blue flash.

So I got this kind of phobia of getting too close to the microphone. You won't forget that. But the whole experience was great.

I remember the night we did the Rosemont, it was a Grammy night. So they wanted for the news, they wanted the opening band to pull up. So they go, who's got the worst car in the band? I go, me.

I got a piece of junk. So Frank Zavruno wants to be in the film too. So we both go, and he'll pull up, take your car, back it off, and they're doing the story of the opening act.

So they show the Duran Duran's tour bus, and they go, now, this is the opening act. I pull up with my piece of junk, and we wave as we're going in. They're doing the story about the difference in class, and then after you're done playing, you go home and go to bed, as opposed to whatever.

So it was a great experience. Well, that's the way things used to be. You used to have local bands opening up for big name acts all the time.

Now, they all tour. If there's even an opening act, they tour together, and it's a double bill or something. No, it was totally, I loved it.

It was like, wow, I get to see this stuff, man. And it was a good time. We met a lot of great players, a lot of action going on.

The kind of thing, they had the loop fest. Used to be an amphitheater. So we're playing on the show with the Go-Go's, and Loverboy, Survivor, other bands, and I knew who the Go-Go's were.

So we're standing in line to get the food in the back, and I could tell it's the Go-Go's. And the drummer's a really good drummer. So the drummer's in back of me, and she goes, do you know who's playing here today? And I go, well, Loverboy's playing.

And I said, you know what? There's a girl band called the Go-Go's playing. And she's in the Go-Go's, I know it's her, though. And she goes, are they any good? I go, they're good, but the drummer's really good.

And she went like this, you know. But they were cool. I mean, it was like, so you had a lot of those fests going on and things like that.

Played Poplar Creek with ZZ Top. Talk about cool guys. ZZ Top's are awesome.

Now you wanna hear that story? Sure, sure. So we're playing at Poplar Creek, and now I have a few big dates. We did Duran Duran.

So you got a few under your belt, right? Now I'm ready for Poplar Creek. Finally, I'm ready to kick it. I'm in the back, warming up, I'm feeling good.

ZZ Top people are beautiful. So it's time to go. I even got the one guitar with me that's already tuned.

So we're walking up to the stage, and I think it was Lin Bremer, or he was XRT, starting to announce it. And as we're walking onto the stage, this is gonna blow your mind. The Union guys come going, start waving their hands.

We're not ready yet. So the Union guys were on a break. They screwed up the times.

We're supposed, listen to this. You gotta hear this story. We're going to play this big show, and I'm so ready to do this thing.

They say, no, they go, we don't have the stuff. So we tell the XRT DJ, Lin Bremer, go, just keep talking, keep talking, keep talking. So each one of us guys ran to the side of the stage in a truck, opened up the case, grabbed one guitar, help set up the amps, this is us guys in a band, set up the amps, no pedal board, no tuning, nothing.

And plug it straight in, and we go, go. And I go like this, I'm gonna die. And it's like, I don't even have my thing, my pedal board, where it's just straight, and we're tuning by ear.

And all's I kept thinking was, my mother used to play these show albums, and she had all of them, Gypsy Rose League, and I remember, I thought, where are we going? The show must go on, the show must, so I'm thinking in my head, oh man, the show must go on, and it was, I never, you know, we couldn't, oh. Were you out of tune? I was out of tune, and I'm trying to smile through the thing, I can't even have my sounds, and it's packed, and I'm like, what the hell happened? So we did it, I remember afterwards, everybody took off, I walked around the audience like in a daze, like, man, it's the worst. But what are you gonna do? We smiled and shrugged it off, so the union guys messed the whole thing up.

It was strange, man. They've been known to do that. It was like, oh man.

Yeah, oh yeah. But, you know, can't have it all. God doesn't put less in both hands.

That's right. You know, so, but nonetheless, quite the experience, and ZZ Top guys were awesome people. So you guys, from the inception of when you joined the gang, you guys all stayed together through the whole? Stayed together, us four.

Okay. It was, like I said, those guys were so easy going, and Mike Shia was so easy going. There was no dissension, no feeling bitterness about nothing.

It was a pleasure, it was easy. And that's a big part of the fact that I was with them, because these guys are pretty cool, man. So who's left? Huh? Who's left? Well, the band eventually broke up.

Frank Jelovec, he ended up going with the Legends, a band, because our bass player, Mark, was in the band. They were doing cover stuff around, so Frank was with them for a year or so. And then Frank got killed in an elevator accident.

He was an elevator guy, a union guy, and his father-in-law was actually the president. He went to school for it. And it just blew my mind, because I kept in touch with Frank, man, and I got a call one day from Frank Soberno, no, from Mike Shia, and he said, Frank's dead, man.

I go, what? It blew my mind. I had a call from Frank Soberno, and we just, it was rough. Because he was such a good person, you know? Now, is Mark and Frank the drummer still around? Okay, let's check this one out.

Frank Soberno, drummer, he moved to L.A. And he was in bands for a while, trying to get other bands, practicing all the time, trying to do this. It became harder and harder for Frank Soberno. So Frank got into tennis.

Now, this is the crazy part for being a musician drummer. He decides he's gonna get deep into it. So he starts practicing every day, 10 hours a day.

And he ends up being a tennis instructor for the stars, for the stars and for the professionals. He has some kind of talent, he can spot a weakness. So Frank, to this day, teaches not only the movie stars, like Clint Eastwood, Regis Philbin, all these guys, but the top tennis players, because he can spot a weakness in a player, and he can fix it.

Isn't that crazy? I go, how did you pull that off, man? He goes, it's practice, man. Because he had a real rough time with finding a substantial gig, how that goes. It's tough, man.

And Mark Gardner, he was always part owner of Naperville Music, and he still is. He still runs Naperville Music. And he was doing the Band of Legends for years.

And then that folded. But check this out. So Mark Gardner's son, one day, we're playing with the Moes, nowadays.

And he brings his son, and his son's like 10 years old. And he goes, my son wants to get up and play and sing Roadhouse Blues. And I go, can he play? And he goes, Frank, yeah.

So we let him, it was a Sherwood concert. We let him get up, and I go, are you in tune? He goes, I'm in tune. And he plugged in and played and sang, he was great.

So I gave him lessons. So I gave him lessons, a couple lessons. So now let's fast forward.

He was a little kid, 12 years old, a little short, heavyset kid. Now, by the time he's now 17, 18, he's tall and thin. He's a great songwriter.

He just got signed on to Warners. Really? Wow, that's great. And I heard one of his songs in Blue Bloods.

So Mark, the bass player from the county, his son is on his way. That's cool. And his name is Dylan Gardner.

Isn't that crazy? Oh, you know what? Somebody told me about him. Somebody just told me about him. I want to say it was Stormy.

Remember Stormy? Yeah. Robert Steeves was telling me about him. The kid, I mean, the kid was, I betcha he got his name in here somewhere.

Yeah, it's just, God bless him. I hope he does it, you know? And we got together with him. Dylan Gardner.

That's him. So a few months back, we got a call. He was playing in town in somewhere downtown, I don't know where, Naperville or something.

And he wanted us to play Total Insanity. So me and Mark Gardner, along with his son and his band, and his other son, who plays drums, we performed Total Insanity at this event with Dylan Gardner singing it and playing it. Total Insanity, which was a single, right? Yeah.

One of the singles. And I had to go back and listen to it and learn it because I forgot how to play it. And it was a gas.

Oh, that's cool. The youth of these guys, man, they're already pumped up, it was fun. So we had a good time.

And Mike Schein came, of course. And he's trying to do some things for, I'll try to help him out. Tell me about, now, you said you did some writing, right? Right.

With the gang. Now what about Love by You, which was your, how so? So here's the thing, Frank was, I have to admit, Frank was the best writer of the band. But we're all trying to get things in.

And I used to, you know, on my days off, I'll sit in front of the TV and I've got my boogie box. And if I get something I think is cool, I tape it. So I was watching the Sugarcane Letter fight.

And I was, you know, Saturday afternoon, I'm just dillying around. And I came up with some idea. So I taped it.

And I made up words on the spot, you know? So, forgot about it. So we go to a kind rehearsal, and I brought the tape. And so after the rehearsal, Mark goes, can I borrow the tape? I go, take the tape.

So Mark gets home with the tape. He puts it on the wrong side. And it's all my little things.

So he heard that something I came up with. And it was Love by You. I had all the music.

I just mumbled the words and had the melody. And he filled in the hole with the words. He put it on a four track, put a drum beat to it.

So he comes back to practice. And he puts this thing on, and I go, what's that? He goes, that's his song. I go, what are you talking about? If it wasn't for him, it would've never even been there.

So it's called Love by You. I wrote it, and Mark helped me write it with some of the lyrics. Now, Frank, it was like just, and then Frank sang it.

So it was just by luck. One of my, just my one song. And they used that for the single, for the single.

And it was just a trip, you know? I would've never, it would've never even, I would've never even looked at it or finished it. But it was just one of those things, so. And our pain and pleasure was I've Got You? That was a combination of the band.

I think Mark, that was one of Mark's songs. ["I've Got You"] ["I've Got You"] So we ended up, I think that was partly Mark's song, and we helped him finish it, or possibly something like that. But most of the time, Frank's songs were all Frank's.

And Frank can write, man. Yeah. I mean, it just was one of those things.

Just one of those things. Now, what would you compare it to? I mean, I mean, you've been compared, the sound has been compared to Off-Broadway and to stuff like that. I mean, it's hard to say.

But you know, during those times, it was funny, because when I got into Kind, I had played a way different stuff. I never played like the new wave stuff or pop stuff. So I was just trying to figure out what I could play on this stuff, because I felt like I don't know how to really do this.

There's more power pop. Right, that stuff, right. Whatever they say it is, that's what it is.

But you got all the influences, you know? Sure. And I loved Off-Broadway. And I, you know, pre-Off-Broadway, the films.

I knew those guys. Right. They actually wanted me in Pez Band years back.

Oh, okay. And I decided to go with Lovecraft. So I knew Cliff from years, and Mimi and all those guys way back, Mike Gorman.

Yeah, it was just so, I mean, we took influences from everybody. Do you think that the music has stood the test of time? Well, like Neil Sean. Anything he records, he doesn't listen to afterwards.

Yeah. I'm the same type of guy. I'm not a good judge of that stuff, but yeah.

I'll tell you what happened, though. There's a group called the Numero Group. I got a call a couple years ago.

And, because, and he goes, are you from the kind? I go, yeah, I'm from the kind. He goes, we're trying to, we're searching down some of the writers. So they wanted a re-release on a compilation disc.

Oh, really? So I said, sure, you know? So I got ahold of Mike Scheid, and he helped negotiate it. And we got, I actually made royalties. We made royalties on it.

And listen to this. So here's the clincher, a couple, about a month ago, or a little longer. Netflix.

The Motley Crue movie. Right. It's in the movie.

Really? Total Insanity's in the movie. Oh, Total Insanity, yeah? Total Insanity, it was from the compilation disc. Yeah.

Two songs. The Numero Group, who re-released it, got it into the movie. So it was actually in there for over a minute.

Really? I saw the movie. I haven't even seen the movie. I guess when you're in a bar, they're all, they're talking on the jukebox, somewhere in the background.

It's in there. Oh, really? And I never seen it yet, but they said, the good part is that it's over an X amount of time. If it's like under 20 seconds, there's no royalties or whatever.

So supposedly, we're supposed to get something from Netflix, and then from ASCAP, you know? And we'll see what happens. But it made an old guy feel pretty good. You know what I mean? Right.

Whether I like the song or not, it was just, it was a rough X amount of time. So has any of this stuff ever been put on digital, or put on a CD, or anything? You know, I'm not really, I don't think so. I don't think so.

It's just been like, people have taken and done that to it. I'll tell you one other story during the kind. Mike Scheidt got it to some other artists, some other major label people, and they were recording a record.

They wanted to put it out. They wanted me to do the recording for it. So I went up to Libertyville, and some producer came in from L.A., and it was already done.

I just had to put my solo on it, I think it was. But the good part was that Ray Gomez was on it, was playing guitar on it. Now, he played with Chick Corea and all these other people.

He was a great session player. So I was like, blown away. And what song was this? Love by You.

Oh, Love by You. He did a different, like a different take to it. It was a female singer.

So it was like, who was that, Terry Bozio's, remember the band he had with the girl his wife was singing? Walking in L.A. What were they called? It was sort of a sound like that. But I was blown away by the fact that the guy that played guitar, not the solo, was this guy Ray Gomez, who played on tons of, you know, I knew his work from different sessions. I heard him on records and stuff.

So you did the solo on it? So I went and did a solo, and I have no idea what ever happened to it. Really? How was it? I never heard about if it got released or it didn't. But, you know, it was just, it was pretty, oh yeah, for a guy from the South Side, being involved in this stuff was pretty cool.

Right. It felt pretty good. Just to have somebody come back and record your stuff is very cool.

Yeah, it was like a compliment to me, you know. It was just like an afterthought of, well, let's just sugarcoat it, let her fight. But I came up with the words.

It just says, boom. Sometimes they come to you, sometimes they don't. Right.

And if you don't catch it when it happens, you ain't gonna remember anything. So, by the luck, I had the chorus, and I had most of the words. I made them up on the spot.

Right. But it's just luck. Yeah, sometimes.

Never happened since. Sometimes that happens, it's just, I mean, just, they come to you and all of a sudden you've written something down, and you go, wow, where'd that come from? That guy wrote it down, because I would have never remembered. Right.

So it can happen anyway, so it's just funny. And people come up, they go, I know what it means, you know. Yeah.

But, you know. Oh yeah. A lot of things.

That's the great thing about any kind of music, is that people see, people see different angles of it, you know, it has different meanings. It's all legitimate, too, it doesn't matter. Right, it's different individuals.

Right, that's awesome. Have you done any more writing of anything? I have. Okay.

I actually, strangely to say, my little nephew became a musician, singer, songwriter. He was at college and stuff, and he got out, and he was back in Chicago, and he called me up, and I said, oh, you're in Chicago, you're trying to put a band together. I said, I'll help you put a band together.

So he goes, what about you, man? I go, you want to be in a band with your old uncle? Are you sure about that? So anyways, he said, sure. So we put the thing together, it was called Cry Uncle. And my nephew, Ian Crockett, what is, guitar player, vocalist, songwriter.

And he's actually got a song in one of Will Smith's movies, Seven Pounds, because his older brother's the producer. My nephew, I have two, only two people in my family besides me are in entertainment. My oldest nephew is a big Hollywood producer.

Really? And his brother, Ian, is a guitar, you know, a songwriter. So we wrote songs together, we did our own CD, and that thing, it never took off or nothing, but it was fortunate that, you know, we played some stuff and I wrote some stuff with him. Yeah, it's still right.

So tell me about the Lords of City Kings. Okay. Kevin Lee.

Yeah. Was a, come from Champaign-Urbana, but he's been around a lot of bands, different bands. Kevin Lee and the Heartbeats.

Correct. Joey Setner from Holland and his other bands. He was in a, you know Joey.

He's got the blonde hair. Yeah. And Brad, Brad was the drummer.

So one day, I get a, Kevin's brother gets ahold of me. I knew Kevin and his brother, Kyle. And he goes, he goes, so my brother's putting a band together.

They're out in LA. They're coming back to the city and they want you to play guitar. So I did.

I said, sure. So they all came back from LA. Kevin was out there with Joey Setner.

Brad was not there. And they came back, gave me a call. We started rehearsing.

Then we had to find, we got Brad to play drums. We got Pete Spira, great keyboard player, man, to play keys. So we ended up, we ended up writing with Kevin, but it ended up being like this.

Kevin was, it wasn't jiving with what he does. So we let Kevin write the songs. We split the publishing.

Had our own publishing company, which is totally fair in business. And put the thing together. Tried various musicians out.

Got it together and got a record deal. We got Don Dixon to produce it. Don Dixon did R.E.M., Smithereens.

Critics love him. So he comes to check the band out. We're a mainstream Midwest rock band.

And the producer's got a red sock and a green sock. And I'm going, we're not that type of band. I hope he doesn't try to change us.

So, because critics love this guy. He's quirky, but we're not that type. So I'm a hip to the fat.

You're more straightforward, right? What? You're more straightforward. Right, so if you're taking the gig, bro, don't be trying to switch us and change things. So we signed with them and I'm going, oh boy.

Great artists, but I'm just wondering, oh boy. So we ended up going to North Carolina to record. We got a budget and everything.

And also, Frankie Sullivan got us our manager. John Burek, REO's manager and survivors. Through Frankie, he was our manager.

No contracts, handshake, beautiful person. So we ended up going down to Georgia to record. Here's what Frankie Sullivan goes.

All right, guys, don't come back with a country-western record. So we come back, things went, somewhere in the middle of it went sour. The vibes, the vibes went, yeah.

In other words, let's put it this way. He goes, well, let's get drum sounds. So, you know, he's throwing snare drum sounds.

So we come in, so we listen and he goes, what do you think? And I look at Calvin and I go, I don't like this out. And he goes, isn't it kind of thin? And I like this, that was it. He goes, tell these guys I'll be out there when they wanna make a record.

And it became this thing. So we come back to Frankie and he goes, you guys made a country-western record. So, 120,000 into it, so now we gotta fix it.

So Frankie, God bless his soul, he got Frank Filippetti from New York. Great, what can I tell you? Another Frank, yeah, it's Frank, Frank, Frank. So, Frank Filippetti, we opened up the world recorders and did another X amount of weeks to salvage this thing.

We did five songs from scratch, the rest we remix and stuff. And put it out and now we got tours. So we toured with REO like five times, man.

And they were awesome. They got duct tape, like this line. It's the perimeter, so we get up, they go, okay, all you bad guys.

It's a romance from REO. All you bad guys, you see this line here? I said, did you see that line? You see that tape? It's the line of death. It's the effin' line of death.

You step one foot over that line and you are outta here. And he looks at us and winks. We can go anywhere.

But you gotta dig there. They were so cool with us, man. But the good part is Frankie Sullivan, through Frankie, he had negotiated a big, helped us negotiate a publishing advance, which is, we don't have to give back.

So we split it. So I was able to make that like 10,000 bucks and then put down payment on the house. So I got the house out of the deal.

It was a down payment. And it was a good experience too. We did some big shows, man.

It was another one. Our Rio guys are great. Easy going guys.

So now, they have a big tour bus and we're in our own car. You can't drive around in your car. We're following to the next gig, you know? Doubling up and everything, but it was well worth it.

It was a lot of fun. So now you're playing with the Moes. Five guys named Moe.

Yeah, how long have you been with the Moes? It's been a while. Yeah, it is. So like 13 years.

Yeah, I was gonna say, it's been over 10, I suppose. Yeah, at least, you know, they work all the time. We did that gig together, remember? Yeah, yeah.

Those last couple of things you played with that Southside Legends of Rock thing. Right, right. That was very cool.

The Doodles, the Moes, and M&R Rush, which you doubled up, you son of a gun. Yeah, I doubled up at that day. Hey, man.

Good for Paul. Now you're back playing, right? Yeah, I'm back playing. All right, because I know you missed a few.

Right. I've been back a few weeks. Okay, cool.

And I have no pain. I'm really feeling good, man. Good.

You guys got a little triple play coming up in Bolingbrook, too, with Cadillac Groove and Tynan, is it? And that's, yeah, that's what it came like. Cadillac was strung out. Strung out.

The Tailgaters. Tailgaters. So that should be, it's August 9th.

Yeah. That should be fun. That should be a good one.

Well, I want to tell everybody that they can still find some kind of music, the kind on YouTube, I know that. Sure. And what about those from City Kings? You know, can we find some of that? I went on YouTube and punched something in and it came up, some stuff came up.

Oh, there you go. You can find it. Yeah, I don't think, as far as the kind goes, nothing was, different people wanted to put it out on digital, but it never really was, except people do it themselves, you know? So there was never a re-release or anything like that.

But not, you're not on Facebook, are you on Facebook? I'm not, believe it or not. Oh, okay. I don't know why.

Maybe soon. Maybe soon, man. Coming soon.

Yes. Yeah. Well, thanks a lot, Frank.

It was great talking to you. Yeah, it was fun. It's been a lot of fun.

Good seeing you guys again. We cross paths many times. Oh, yes.

Yes, we do. At these gigs. Yes, we do.

And like I say, whatever stays, you know, we don't say, we don't talk. Thank you. I think I got to shut this down now.

Nobody gets hurt, you know. Always a pleasure. Your name's a bit changed to protect the innocent.

Correct. We are innocent. Yeah, it's true.

It's true. Thanks a lot. You're welcome.

But Frank, he loves to tell a story, doesn't he? He sure does, man. He sure had a great time back in the day with those guys. Yes, he did.

Yes, he did. Sounds like you're a fun band and all easy to get along with, too. That's, yeah, that's a great part.

He said that when they were together, everything just gelled. Everything was wonderful. You don't find that, especially nowadays, in groups.

No, no, you sure don't. No. Well, you know, it's like a marriage, I guess.

Oh, for sure. That's what they say, anyway. Yeah, it's a give and take.

I don't know who they are, but they say that. They do. They have all said that, and we believe them.

That's right. So we got anything going on for next week? As a matter of fact, we do. We have Hartsfield coming up.

Oh, Hartsfield, yeah. Dr. Scott Bonshire and a couple of the guys from Hartsfield coming up next week, so be sure to stay tuned for that. And meantime, be sure and share, and listen, and be sure and tell all your friends about the Rock & Roll Chicago podcast.

Most definitely, you got to do that. And hey, you know what, maybe if you stop out at Pierogi Fest this coming weekend, you might see Grandma there. OK, good, good.

I hope so. Yeah. Hope she's making her pierogies.

I'm sure she will. Those pickled herring are wonderful. Yeah, yes.

All right. All righty, we'll talk to all you guys next week. Thanks for listening.

Thank you.