Ep 249 American English
(0:00 - 37:10)
Coming to you from the studios at the Illinois rock and roll museum on route 66. It's the rock
and roll Chicago podcast Hey, it's hot read the roadie You handsome some bitch. I am I thank
you.
Yeah, we're talking temperature temperature. Yes. Well, yeah, it is very hot.
Yeah. Yeah I'm heartbroke Mike this week. Are you yeah, why is that? Ozzy man, oh, that's right.
I know I know it was I know that this podcast is coming out a while After the passing right of
Ozzy Osbourne. Mm-hmm, but I don't care We've got to take a minute and acknowledge the
fact that Ozzy passed away yesterday. That's right.
Yeah, I was in I was in fifth grade and Yesterday. Yes, I was yesterday and one of you know, I
was in fifth grade guy. It was in 1981 Okay, I believe it was and one of my classmates comes in
which was this was brilliant because I went to a Catholic school and One of our classmates
comes in at lunchtime.
We were allowed to bring in records and the teacher would play the records and stuff He brings
in an Ozzy Osbourne album He sure did and I took one look at the album cover terrified the shit
out of me Crap, what the hell is this, you know, and The teacher played it. I was absolutely
teacher played it. And so we listened to Ozzy Osbourne at lunchtime And I was hooked ever
since then mainly because he terrified me to death and I was like, oh my god I've got to keep
listening just to find out, you know, why I'm terrified from this From this music and then after
about a month.
I was like, I'm not terrified by this music. I love this music Absolutely love you're scared to love
it. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. That's just the weird thing is, you know, they just had their final show Yeah, a
few weeks full circle. Yeah, exactly.
That was To do that show. Yeah, I'm glad he did no absolutely, you know Yeah, and you know,
there's part of me part of me that thinks he knew He knew and he was pushing real hard to get
this show done and he wanted to be perfect and everything but he did it He knew and he did it
did it. Yeah, it was it was amazing.
Did you guys did you catch any of Any of the show any of the clips? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah So his voice wasn't the voice that you're used to hearing from Ozzy, but he was up
there and he was doing it Yeah, you know a couple of notes. He couldn't hit so he just brought
it down, you know, everybody, you know It's ozzy.
Yeah, it was ozzy. Yeah. Yeah, and he did it sitting on a freaking throne.
That's wrong and all Prince of darkness, man. Yeah. Yeah, you know, that's the most ironic thing
about it because I know people who have actually met him and Everything and yeah, he you
know, he loved the whole prince of darkness Yeah, you know thing, you know the moniker that
he gave himself but he was anything but he was not oh my god You never seen when you saw
him with his grandkids.
Yeah. Oh my god. He was just like anybody's grandmother Yeah, you know, it's funny and
enjoyable to talk to and in the whole bit I'm i'm gonna i'm gonna miss that personality and that
talent like uh, like you wouldn't believe we're not gonna see it again No, I highly doubt it.
No, no, he was a he was a true original Stuff those addictions and stuff to last till 76. It's
incredible. That's that's unbelievable He he lived longer than richard simmons who was a health
nut, right? Right.
That's a good point But then you also have keith richards over there going here Teaching
teaching a baby, uh, uh Tony iommi how to play guitar. Yeah Wow, you know, they they were a
british band. They were a british band I mean that and that totally brings up the argument.
Are you beatles or are you stones? Yeah, we're stones personally. You guys are stones
personally. Yeah everybody So who we got in the studio american english American english.
Oh, it's still it's still there. It didn't get it didn't get thrown away by the factory reset That's just
for ringo. Yeah, there you go Yeah, that's all for me american english.
Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's we uh, you know a few weeks ago we did um, We did an interview
with a a nickelback tribute band And you know, I had to ask the you know, I had to ask the
question You can't have a nickelback tribute band in here without talking about the negativity
that is always thrown at them Right. Yeah, and we and we we called them probably the most
polarizing band in music today lately.
Yes. Yeah, but I mean, let's let's face it though The beatles were probably the first original
polarizing band. Yeah, I mean don't I mean, is that a fair statement? Absolutely Yeah, yeah, i'd
say so.
Yeah, I mean, I mean you guys all feel that way Well, I it depends what you mean maybe in the
sense that like older people at the time didn't get them and like them Uh, but I think now
they're pretty globally accepted unless you mean like the beatles and stones kind of argument
Maybe they're a little poppy for some people. That's what I was thinking You know, yeah,
maybe a little maybe a little bit because you had I mean you had that that time or that era in
music where you were these, uh, you know Raunchy blues based kinds of music coming out of
you know coming out of england with the british invasion And then you had you know the
beatles like you said they were a little more poppy You know the whole bit kind of stretched
their wings a little bit more songwriters So you had a lot of rock and roll purists saying what is
this garbage? Yeah, you know And I guess those became your stones fans. Yeah.
Well, it's it's a good thing to bring up being here at the illinois rock and roll hall of fame where
we're taping because Those bands that you're mentioning and you're talking about the stones
you're talking about the kinks you're talking about the yardbirds Their biggest influences were
coming out of chicago blues, right Electric blues and and the surrounding area as were the
beatles You know, you asked john lennon paul mccartney their biggest influence is now you're
looking at elvis Buddy, holly little richard, which is why they kind of veered a little more like you
said the songwriting Way as opposed to the stones who are doing covers of muddy water, you
know, right right But think about what you just said though, you know the the the the acts and
the bands and musicians that you just named Those are blues musicians. Absolutely. Yeah, I
mean little richard.
I mean, yeah, you really don't get much more blues riff than little richard I mean he made it
more flamboyant and bouncy in the whole bit, but I mean it was blues It was the same thing.
Yeah, but you know, I guess it was a way of uh, you know Keeping it in the delta and then
modernizing it and making it palatable for the masses in the city Yeah, we talk about that all the
time. You know, the uh, the premise of the podcast has always been Um, it's the rock and roll
chicago podcast.
You gotta have something to do with chicago, right? Right. Yeah, but if the stones walked in the
door right now and said, um, you know, mick jagger by himself I guess or mick and keith
walked to the door right now and said hey We'd like to do an interview on your podcast. Will
you let us we would be pretty stupid to not let hope Yeah, but but they but they also did record
an album at chess records You know, there is a connection to uh, there is a connection to it So,
yeah, so why don't you guys go, you know, let's do the kindergarten thing and introduce
yourselves and tell you uh who you play and what you play and Actually, if you say who you are,
I think everybody's gonna know Exactly what they do in the band.
So Well, my name is tony gene greco. I play ringo star. I've been in the band since late 2019 All
right, and the rest has been history any relation to mark g and greco.
Yeah, actually i've never met him personally, but We have pictures of my grandpa when he was
a lot younger and Him and mark looked like they could have been twins. Wow. Okay, so there is
some Distant connection, right? I've never met him at least not yet, but We do think there's
some distant relation between us, right? That happens believe me i'm in that same situation If
you go to anywhere to the state of louisiana, my last name is a very popular name there And I
run into people all the time that have my last name And they say that we're related in some
kind of way But we have no idea how to figure out how to get back to the point where we are
But I totally get that.
Yeah. Yeah Well, uh, my name is dom rossi. I portray or do my best to portray paul mccartney.
All right And uh, i'm actually the newest member of this band. Uh, I joined technically In what
was it november? December ish, but I wasn't official Officially announced until last sunday
Wow, okay. Yeah, it's pretty new.
So you you are new. Yeah. Wow, very new.
Wow And how long have you been in the band as as ringo? I've been in the band since
September 2019. Gotcha. Okay.
All right. All righty And I guess that leaves me, um, I should probably explain who the hell I am,
uh, Yeah I think of myself as sort of the keeper of the flame of american english And i'm the guy
that's gonna write the uh biography someday I saw the band first of all, my name is james paul
lynch And I saw american english play when I was probably Six years old seven years old My
father took me to a northwest side carnival All I cared about was cotton candy and rides. He
wanted to see this new Beatle band that he'd been hearing about these guys play the beatles
like nobody's nobody's ever done it like this They get the suits the guitars.
It's just they sing just like them. I got it. My dad loves the beatles He's a musician as well So he
took me to see these guys and my life changed and I watched I didn't know people did that and
people didn't do it I mean there had been like elvis impersonators things like that But nobody
had really the beatles tribute thing or tribute bands nickelback, whatever it is.
It wasn't it didn't exist yet Uh this you're talking about a band that started 1978 1979 I was born
in 1979. Yeah, right, right So it's like okay there I am six years old seven years old and in chicago
seeing these guys thinking this is the coolest thing i'd ever seen and I Knew who the beatles
were And I thought i'm gonna do that Not realizing that 40 years later. I would be doing that in
this band.
Yeah Now did you follow the band the you know throughout your life and knew that the band
still existed yeah And the opportunity came around Um to audition for the band Yeah, what
what year was that? So I ended up, you know learning music through the beatles as all of us
here have done And eventually got into other beatles tribute bands both chicago-based and
other work Otherwise, I mean i've been all over the world three corners of the world doing this
And they called me in early Oh, maybe 2004 2005 to fill in as john lennon at the time. I was in
my 20s Absolutely. I did a few gigs had a great time And through the years if somebody would
get sick, they'd call me say can you come in? Can you play george? Yeah, I could play george.
Sure. No problem so I had cultivated relationships with these guys and then in 2012 They
needed a full-time george harrison. I said i'm in sign me up.
I mean, that's my dream job And I so you were filling you were like a fill-in for several years
before they decided that they were going to exactly Yeah, so so is So are any of the original
members still left? No, we just retired the last guy eric eric michaels the legend legend I mean
just we had a huge Show at the arcada theater in saint charles, okay, and he said his goodbyes.
He was the longest running original member Wow, what was it? 42 years 44 years 44 years.
Yeah So so was there like a passing over the torch ceremony in the whole bit? It kind of turned
out to be that way.
Wow. So, uh, my concept was this I said look We're going to do this. It happened to be ron
honesty's 20th anniversary in that theater.
So we thought perfect Let's make it a big big deal We've got dom now eric was ready to retire
after all those years. We said let's bring back the original four guys the original american
english from 1978 Yeah, and they're all still with us and they all still play So I called them all and
you know, they don't talk a whole lot, but they're friendly enough And they said yeah, that's
great. We'll do it.
So we had the original guys. Oh, that's cool That is cool who made the name. I mean they really
started this whole thing and made it what it is Yeah, they all came together and and played
together for a few songs.
I mean it was Charming heartwarming. It was unbelievable. So how long how long did the
original four run the band? So probably till about the late 80s when they started replacing
members with as you do, you know I mean guys will go as long as they can they get kids or they
want to do something else, you know Right, so guys would start to retire quit leave whatever
and they'd bring in different people and so there's been a few cast members, but One thing
unlike other beatle bands, you'll see some of these bigger names that kind of come through
they play chicago theater And not and not to nothing against them.
They're great. Some of them are amazingly great But it's always some sort of like well We're
using this paul on this show and we're sending this john to st Lewis and that george is gonna
go to florida. Yeah, that's not right.
That's never been american english. We've always been a band, right? Maybe we've had six
different johns and five different georges, whatever it is But we've always tried to stick together
with a certain lineup because that to us at least makes a band, right? So it's always been like i've
been in the band 13 years. So this isn't like a new gig to me, right? It's become my identity, but I
didn't start in the band somebody else I was past this torch from somebody else and we're just
trying to keep it alive, right? Do you know alex evans? Absolutely.
Yeah, good friend of mine. Yeah, me too. He's a good friend of mine.
Yeah. Yeah, he uh, he was the paul wasn't he? Wasn't he? No, no, but alex is a great beatles
Lover and and just a monster musician and I played with him. I played with him in an eric
clapton band Did you yeah, really? Yeah, he's one of my heroes.
I love alex amazing amazing musician. He really is I uh, but I thought he played with you guys
for a little bit. Maybe he's like a fill-in or something.
Yeah, I had him It was so much fun because he's just he could play anything I know he's one of
these guys that just You know alex if you're listening, I love you, but I hate you. Yeah, he's he's
one of these I mean he can play anything. Yeah, he can sing like a freaking angel.
I know, you know And he he knows more music. I I thought I knew a lot of music. Yeah He
knows stuff that yeah.
Yeah, he's forgotten more music than I've ever learned I told him the same thing. That's what I
said Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah.
Yeah, and I and I do I get the opportunity to play with him on occasion He's he's filled in uh with
me on a on a few projects and stuff And yeah, we've we've played together in house bands for
like open jams and stuff like that He's he's a great guy. Absolutely. I had to bring it.
I had to bring it up So yeah, so we have this passing of the torch. Yeah And so now none of the
members in the band are any of the original guys Eric was the last one they were all they were
all just like hey, keep it going. Yeah Oh, yeah, it turned out to be this great moment where we
went on and we did, you know Hard days nine eight days a week.
We did about five six songs Then I called them out and I said ladies and gentlemen something
very special The original american english and they came out and of course, we said a big
tribute to eric as he was retiring, right? They did three songs and then eric got on the piano did
hey jude brought the house down I mean just people were crying it was I mean, it's a chicago
institution. I was crying right But that's only because you stepped on my foot. Yeah, but no my
steel-toed boots but uh, and then We had time left.
So we had to go back out and do another 10 minutes And that's when I said, let's welcome dom
rossi into the band, right? So it was like a ceremonial sort of like okay here. Here's the old
guard. They did it They're done and now we're gonna keep it alive and it was very very
poignant.
It was a nice night We had fun a great crowd. Yeah, wonderful, you know, awesome. It was It's
incredibly special to me, you know filling these shoes which are big shoes to fill You know
american english like you I went to go see as a little kid before I even knew who the beatles
were My dad took me to um Melrose fest so you probably saw him.
No, no. No, this was before. Okay, what you have been seeing me Yeah, I uh, there's no way you
haven't you know, because I was saying he kind of looks 12 right now it's like Um, no, I I
seriously started following the band probably around 2015.
Okay. I was probably 13 14. Okay, and um, yeah, again, just started getting to know them and I
remember you'd come up and ask questions and what do you use? What kind of strings? What
kind of what are your pedals? It's all the nerd stuff, you know, then no one else is really gonna
notice But that's what we strive for.
Yeah, right the nerdy stuff because As a casual fan You're probably going to notice something is
missing without actually noticing what it is. Yeah, sure, you know, right, right even if it's I don't
know Something's missing on a guitar. Yeah No casual fan's gonna be like, oh, well the
pickguard on the hoffner bass isn't there, right? But you know something's missing right? Right,
right, you know, the fans always know they always know There's always going to be some we
get emails every gig you didn't play it this way Or you didn't this guy didn't look right or his
thing was off I mean, there's always somebody someone the beatles are that kind of band
people are like Zoned into every little detail not everybody, but there's always one or two.
They know we are. Oh, no, they definitely are believe me I've got a lot of friends who are into
beatles and they come out to see me play and I keep telling them Hey, do you guys know any
beatles? No, how many times are you gonna ask me? How many times are you gonna ask me?
Do we know anybody? It's like, you know, it's been like 12 times now But uh, but no there are
beatles fans out there that are worse than rush fans, you know If it's not the beatles, it's not
music. Yeah, right I mean, I literally have friends that they are not listening to music unless it is
the beatles and I try to tell them You know, there's been a lot of other songs recorded over the
years.
Yes, you know pick one and listen to it No, it's not the beatles, you know, a little anecdote here
actually so I went to go see american english at um A guaranteed rate field in 2017 for one of
their beetle nights, right? Right, right, right and I was talking with one of the employees And he
was saying, you know, i'm not really a beatles fan. I never liked them really but He went on and
on about how much they contributed to music. Of course, you know, you can't deny that of
course at all No, there was a comiskey park, right? Comiskey park Yeah, remember i'm only
being I don't recognize you Neither do I but he's only like 25 years old.
He doesn't remember younger than that. Yeah He doesn't remember comiskey park. No, I don't
man.
Yeah No, but you're absolutely right and and in every aspect of and I use the word showbiz
here in every aspect of of showbiz They were so influential the way they combed their hair the
way they dressed the way they danced the instruments that they played They came out and
playing instruments. No one played a hoffner bass. What I mean, have you ever seen anybody
play a hoffner? Before mccartney No rickenbacker, you know For years people thought that
rickenbacker were british-made guitars Because they saw john lennon playing a rickenbacker
guitar had no idea they were handmade in california.
Yeah, I did. I thought it was british Yeah, yeah, everybody thought it was a british guitar You
know just things like that that they've influenced so much not to mention their recording style
Yes, I mean you can argue that man. They had some they had a lot of overproduction on some
of their songs You know, of course, but yeah, but I mean it added to the mystique.
I mean, what was the george martin george martin? Yeah, the fifth beetle freaking genius
genius absolute genius, you know, which brings me to the question When you guys are playing
some of that stuff live. Are you really produce? Are you are you producing that uh in studio
production stuff? And yeah, we uh, we refuse to use. Um like tracks And right absolutely not
that we have anything against bands that do that that's kind of industry standard now I mean
even your big name acts are using tracks because it's just what we do We have always used a
live keyboardist but actually musically trained classically trained In most cases keyboardists and
he's got to know those sounds and he's got to be as big as a beetle nerd as we are And he has
got us and he is yeah richard richard sladeck before him kenny zemanek who was another
musical genius.
Yes, and These guys we couldn't do this show without them. Yeah, because we can't we're
playing guitar and bass and singing we can't play But that's got to be somebody else but it's got
to be right. It's got to sound right But it adds so much so much so much and there's some of
their recordings like even the guitars Have some type of an effect on the guitar.
Oh, yeah, and that's that's where we can geek out Yeah, I know That's kind of goes back to my
point of saying the fans aren't going to notice specifically what it is But they're going to notice if
something's off, right? Yeah, you know, I mean the difference between a cover band and a
tribute band. Absolutely I can go up with my dad and and play I saw her standing there and just
have fun with it It's any cool, you know bluesy rock thing That's not going to sound like the
beatles not right unless you play it as much as you can But there's also a specific playing style It
doesn't just you know encompass the the amps or the guitars you use you can play those
guitars or basses or whatever Through those vox ac30s, whatever, but if you're not playing in
the style, right, then it's pointless Of course, you got to play it like they played it and we try, you
know, you'll never get it 100% But we aim for 19 or better. Yeah, we really do.
No, I mean i've seen i've seen uh, you know, poor beatles tribute bands before And the ones
that i've seen they try to emulate a specific era, you know um, and you know, I saw I forgot I I
Don't remember the name of the band and it's irrelevant, but they tried to emulate the later
beatles You know back when john lennon had long hair and wore army jackets and you know
And that kind of thing and it was it was simple things like a simple thing like a like a chorus
effect on a guitar Yeah to me. That's the kind of thing Okay, if you're in the middle of playing a
song and you step on a chorus pedal, nobody's gonna really know. Yeah, but The second the
second you turn it off though.
Yeah. Yeah. It's one of these things where you don't notice until it isn't there anymore They
absolutely know they know something's missing, right? Exactly.
So that's kind of more I was getting at is how you got, you know Are you guys producing this
stuff at your feet or with the keyboard or whatever? It's all life. It's all of it It's a whole. Yeah, it's
it's a uh, it's a very Concerned effort to get it all right between the sound guy and what he's
doing with our vocals Because you know, there's a different vocal effect on everything
especially once you get to sergeant pepper and out, right? So he's doing a certain job then
you've got richard doing all the keyboard parts whatever it might be and a lot of percussion
work Yes, then you've got ringo Who's not just playing drums, but he's playing bongos and he's
playing tambourines and he's playing claves Not to mention what we're all doing my parts are
different from john's parts and he's holding down the bass But he can't just play bass right
because he's paul because he's got to play guitar, right? He's got to play piano and he's got to
sing while he's playing bass Left-handed.
Yeah Yeah, yeah, I sometimes curse it because I go and we don't get me wrong We love what
we do and we're blessed to do it But I look at some of these like why didn't we pick the beach
boys or something? We could just show up in a hawaiian shirt. Yeah, we got a tape mustache.
Yeah, but now we gotta replicate smile You know, it's like well, there you go But you know
what? I mean? Yeah, you just play chuck berry songs all day long and change One four five
progression the whole night Yeah I gotta bring six guitars to every show six guitars in my little
jeep I cram them all in there and I got three different costumes and we got wigs.
It's a Broadway production production. Yeah, but we're doing it at willow fester. We're doing it
at elmwood park So I have to ask do you have the rosewood telecaster? Absolutely you do?
Yeah, that's yeah might be my favorite.
I love that I uh, I bought one for my son My my son graduated from college just this this last
semester. Yeah, that was his graduation gift. I bought I bought him a uh, The the george
harrison rosewood.
Yeah, that's like the present of the century I mean it weighs about the same as the bumper of a
mack truck But you bought yourself a guitar too, yeah, of course I did But I mean not that one.
I've you know, i've i've never been a really a telecaster guy I've got one telecaster, but my son
loves telecaster So I was like, okay if i'm gonna get him a telecaster, that's the one i'm gonna
that's cool It just looks freaking great Funnily enough he didn't care for it. George was not a fan
of it Yeah, all of us guys, especially musicians and beatle fans to us.
That's one of the holy grail George played it on let it be and gave it away and gave it away They
didn't get that guitar back until 2004. Yeah, the harrison is yeah So yeah, but it is so cool
speaking of uh playing the bass left-handed. Are you natural? No, no, no That's a good story.
If not to talk too much if you don't mind I i've been so impressed with this young man and i've
been telling everybody the story first of all eric michaels Like as paul mccartney. Yeah, I mean
you can't top it. It's not like you could replace him We're not even trying to we got somebody
brand new who brings his own Take on the character What happened was I got sick.
This was october of last year. I got hand foot and mouth disease I've got a seven-year-old she's
in school I've never I never even heard of hand foot and mouth You see it on signs at the
airport like don't breathe. What is it even a real thing? It's horrifying It's the worst thing you get
a fever.
You have the flu you break out in these blisters all over your body It's terrible. Wow. Yeah, this
is what I got.
I'm like, oh my gosh And uh, we were hours out hours out to play a show and I said I there's
just no way I can't do it And I called dom and I said dom because he's a great guitarist and he's
a great george harrison guy I said, please can you make it out? Can you cover me? He goes?
Yeah, i'll be there. I'll do it He came out. He rocked it.
He was awesome. Everybody loved him Two weeks later eric the paul he gets sick So now we
have a gig i'm healthy now eric's out So I called him again because I knew he was a multi
instrumentalist and I said Can you just bring a bass? Do your best on the vocals? I know they're
high but I know you can sing Can you just try just get us through the the show? He goes? Yeah,
i'll do my best. I'll do it He was so good And I and I pulled him aside right away.
I said dom. I know eric's going to be retiring probably next year We want to keep this thing
going. It's just such a great name.
It's such a legendary thing. We can't let it die Would you consider being paul? I know you're a
great george But we need a paul. I don't need a george, you know, right? He says.
All right. Yeah, I I let me let me work I think I could do it. I'd love to try I said great one big
problem We cannot ever write I said that's something they'd notice, right? And that goes back
to what we were saying, you know, so I said, yeah, would you consider can you play upside
down? Yeah Yeah So he says well give me a month or so, let me see if I could I'll work on it I
mean i'll give it a shot.
Okay, great. Wow guys. I'm telling you he came to the first rehearsal He was playing bass so
good.
I mean mccartney would have said damn. I mean, that's how good So he's just one of those
kind of guys that like you said you're like alex Evans you love to hate him because it's like the
talent is unbelievable and he hasn't looked back. I mean he's Really it's like you wait till you see
him, you know, it's funny Because you were talking about it at that that gig which I kind of
consider my audition Which is a funny story.
My gig was my audition was a gig. Just kind of amusing but um, you know Did the gig you
mentioned? Hey, you know, we want to keep this thing going. Yeah, and that was like kind of
like a wow Is this actually happening right now? So I went home and thought about it the next
day.
I bought a left-handed bass Piece of crap left-handed bass And I worked at it because I played
left-handed. I messed around with it before You know, I don't know for a couple years prior to
that but never really locked in his free time He's that kind of guy So I bought this piece of crap
bass And the frets were you know slicing my hand open and I worked at it for I don't know a
couple weeks and it's eventually I sold the base. I couldn't play it anymore So I bought my first
left-handed hoffner And I kid you not three hours a day for the next month until that first
rehearsal wow and After that, you know, it just I kept working at it and working at it and even
when we did that rehearsal I wasn't comfortable yet.
Yeah, there was a few songs that he which I could understand I go Well, it's gonna take you
might take you a year. Yeah until some of these songs No, yeah, you know, but but these days I
get up there and it feels like second nature. Well, we're good.
That's great That's the kind of dedication that you would not expect from just a cool. Hey, we
got a cool blues band We're gonna play some clubs. Can you play some bass this band? This
band has a name and it has a reputation and we have to uphold that reputation Because
people know american english we owe it to the founders.
We owe it to the founders. Yeah They took it from here to you know, yeah, I mean there's I
mean there's a lot of tribute bands out there that that don't look Like the bands they're paying
tribute to and and that's that's their thing. That's perfectly fine.
You know, there's a there's a great Band, they do a police tribute and they tell you right they
say right at the beginning of the show Um, we don't look like them. We don't play the
instruments, right? And yeah, there's four of us up here Yeah, but we're but we're playing we're
paying tribute to the police and that's fine Yeah, but then you got the but but you know Then
you've got the the show, you know part of it too The the tribute bands that like you guys you
dress like him You sound like him you try and emulate everything you put, you know, you put
the time into the details Yeah, well as yet you're acting you got to be an actor We take it very
seriously and like I had mentioned I was a fan of american english before I even knew who the
beatles were So to be asked To take over these gigantic shoes. Yeah, you know, it's not
something i'm going to take lightly, right? So however much time it takes to master it i'll do it.
Yeah. So what are the other guitars that you have? Well for me, of course the country
gentleman, right? That's kind of the money maker that pays most of the bills, right? Yeah, and
then I have a casino right with the bigsby on it, you know, like he had in 66 Yeah, and and
through pepper and stuff. I always thought john was a little more, uh, well known for the
playing the casino.
Yes He he asked john Yeah, george. Yeah, and i've got the uh, rocky Stratocaster's like
psychedelic painted right now. Yeah, play that almost every show got the rosewood tally.
I've got a red and you play it on Um, what was the song he played on he played it on um, which
which guitar the rosewood Oh, I play well, I like let it be So you have to play it on let it be for
sure whenever we do like a don't let me down That's all rosewood tally. Yeah, I like to play it on
although there's some argument that it might be less paul on on octopus But I I like playing it
on the telly to me because it's country song to get technical, you know The photos from that
session or the one right before it had him on the rosewood, right? Right, so I I like to play it
there. Yeah I have um, I have a I have a all right used to have a poster.
He got torn in a move of when the beatles played a route the the rooftop and and uh george
played that telecaster the rosewood telecaster on the roof was that the only time he Played it
live only time live That was the only time live he played okay But most of the most of the get
back sessions was the rosewood was the rosewood telly that was his new baby or lucy Right
and or less ball less ball. Yeah, gotcha, right. I've got one of those.
That's not a lucy It's just a red traditional. Let's go. Sure.
It's yeah, it has the right feel. It's a big fat 50s neck It's very similar to what lucy would have
been sure 57 through 59 kind of type less ball, you know, right? I'll tell you what we what we
need to do. We've we've We've gone past the time where we asked somebody to pledge, right?
And I want to hear you guys play something and when we come back After the song I want to
talk to you about the drums for sure because I got story about the about drumming So let's
we're gonna take a quick break We're gonna we're gonna eq you guys up real quick and we're
gonna come back we're gonna get a song from american english All righty, we'll be right back.
Cool You're listening to the rock and roll chicago podcast your sunday nights Just got a whole
lot bluesier get ready for the bus stop blues show that takes you deep into the soul of the blues
with classic hits road stories and live jam sessions Hosted by blues man kevin purcell and me
the one and only road bill the bus stop blues is two hours of non-stop blues Banter and
badassery check out the bus stop blues podcast at the bus stop blues.com where you can listen
on spotify I heart apple podcasts or any other major podcast platform up on board the bus stop
blues where the blues never stops rolling Hey everybody, it's ray the roadie and this is
hollywood mike of the rock and roll chicago podcast If you've been joining our weekly program,
we have great news for you Just tuning in to road to rock radio on mondays at 7 p.m Central
time and you can hear a rebroadcast of one of our past episodes then again on thursdays at 7
p.m You can hear our most current episode brought to you by the illinois rock and roll museum
on route 66 So go to road to rock dot org scroll down and click on radio station That'll bring you
to the road to rock radio a station committed entirely to the great music from illinois From
chicago blues born on maxwell street to today's rock and roll and everything in between 24 7 all
music with its roots in illinois All right after that break we are back with american english gonna
play some beatles tunes for us. Yeah, okay just a little bit, you know Here comes the sun Here
comes the sun I say it's all right Little darling, it's been a long cold rolly It feels like years since
it's been Here comes the sun Here comes the sun It's all right So Son here it comes Son son
here it comes Son son son here it comes Son son son here it comes sing it raise Sun, sun, sun,
here it comes Little darling, I feel that ice is slowly melting Little darling, it seems like years
since it's been clean But here comes the sun, here comes the sun And I say it's alright Here
comes the sun, here comes the sun And it's alright It's alright How about that? Alright. Now, I
felt like I was in Liverpool.
(37:11 - 37:28)
The Liverpool, that's gross. So you chose that song, now that was the song, was that like the
first song that George wrote? And they said, yeah, we'll record one of yours. No, no, no, no.
(37:28 - 37:33)
That was way back in 1963. Okay. That's a song called Don't Bother Me.
(37:34 - 37:38)
Okay. It was on the With the Beatles, Meet the Beatles album. Depends where you live, yeah.
(37:38 - 37:43)
Depends where you live. The story goes, he was sick with the flu. Yep, yep, yep.
(37:43 - 37:47)
And, you know. Or hand, foot and mouth. Or hand, foot and mouth.
(37:47 - 37:55)
Something like that. In your case, yeah. And he was obviously bedridden, so he thought, well
why not try to write a song? Yeah.
(37:55 - 38:00)
And it was called Don't Bother Me because he didn't want anyone to bother him. Yeah, right.
No, I get that.
(38:00 - 38:02)
Okay. So they ended up recording it and it's a great tune. Yeah.
(38:02 - 38:07)
But he always considered it kind of like an exercise, a throwaway. Yeah, yeah. I don't consider it
that though.
(38:08 - 38:24)
I tell this story to the crowd often, is that George didn't have his first number one hit until the
last album, which was Abbey Road. I know that technically the last albums let it be, but the last
album they made together They recorded, yeah. Was Abbey Road.
(38:24 - 38:27)
Abbey Road. Right. And he got a number one hit with Something.
(38:27 - 38:30)
The song Something. Yep, yep. And it's the only one he's got.
(38:32 - 38:54)
But now, all these years later, if you go to streaming, so like Spotify, Apple, iTunes, anything like
that, if you open Spotify on your phone right now and type in The Beatles, which has got to be
one of the biggest bands, you know what I mean? Come on. Right. If you type in The Beatles
and search and it'll show you the most popular songs by far, I mean, ahead of everything.
(38:54 - 38:57)
Ahead of Yesterday. Ahead of Hey Jude. Here comes the song.
(38:57 - 38:59)
A billion streams. Oh, absolutely. George Harrison.
(39:00 - 39:10)
There's something about that song that connects with people on some level. It has grown and
become this thing to itself in the last 50 years. Yeah, yeah.
(39:10 - 39:21)
Well, there's that one thing you always say when you do it, is that it's the only Beatles song to
hit a billion streams on Spotify. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know what? It does have a different
sound.
(39:21 - 39:32)
Yeah. Yeah. You know, if somebody who is completely unfamiliar with The Beatles started
listening to their music in one afternoon and then you threw that song in there, that person
would probably be like, okay, now what band is this? Yeah.
(39:33 - 39:47)
It's that different. It's that sound. And that's actually one of the polarizing things that I kind of
had in mind when we opened up the show, was there is a huge group of Beatles fans.
(39:48 - 39:54)
Actually, I don't know if you can call them Beatles fans. You can call them George Harrison fans.
And if you talk to them, they're like, The Beatles? No, I hate The Beatles.
(39:54 - 40:01)
I like George Harrison. And I hate Paul and John because they would never let him write his own
music. And he was just as good as they were.
(40:01 - 40:06)
And they were assholes. I mean, there's that whole group of people that always say that. And
it's not unfounded.
(40:06 - 40:12)
Right. My wife is that way. She's not a huge fan of Paul McCartney.
(40:13 - 40:19)
Yeah. She just doesn't care for him, especially solo. She just does not like his style, whatever it
is.
(40:19 - 40:24)
But she loves George. And John, too. She's a big George fan.
(40:24 - 40:31)
And she thinks the way those people think, that he could have been bigger in The Beatles. But
come on. I mean, it is what it is.
(40:31 - 40:41)
We wouldn't have had All Things Must Pass if they had let him have his way. Right. My favorite
thing about The Beatles was when I was young, me and my friends were into the cartoon.
(40:42 - 40:46)
Yeah, me too. The cartoon. I mean, the cartoon was great.
(40:46 - 40:53)
Yeah. You know, and if you look at them as people, I mean, they were caricatures of themselves
to begin with. Yeah.
(40:53 - 40:56)
I think we have our doorbell ringing. Okay. Yeah.
(40:57 - 41:04)
I mean, they were perfect for, you know, making into a cartoon. Oh, yeah. Especially Ringo.
(41:04 - 41:11)
You know, Ringo always had that quality about him. Yeah, but I never liked how they did that to
him, though. Yeah.
(41:11 - 41:18)
They painted him as being some doofus, but he is one of the greatest drummers of all time.
And he was probably the smartest guy in the band. Absolutely.
(41:18 - 41:24)
Because he was the guy that was all business all the time. Yes. He was the guy with, you know,
drinking martinis when they were smoking weed and drinking beer.
(41:24 - 41:26)
Yes. I mean, he was that guy. Yeah.
(41:26 - 41:43)
Yeah. I forgot to show that it was on Netflix, but they did a documentary about The Beatles, and
they just sit back and watch Ringo interact with everybody as opposed to the way the other
guys interacted with everybody. It was like, okay, so Ringo is the dad of the band.
(41:43 - 41:45)
Well, he was also the oldest. Yeah. So it makes sense.
(41:45 - 41:46)
Yeah. He is the oldest. Yeah.
(41:47 - 41:54)
Yeah. Yeah. So going back to, I liked the cartoon in the whole bit.
(41:54 - 42:02)
And I liked the music that they played in the cartoon. And I was a young kid. I mean, I was very
young when this was on Channel 44 in Chicago.
(42:03 - 42:12)
I remember that very distinctly. Then The Beatles left my, you know, my playlist for a long time.
And am I a Beatles fan? I don't know if I can call myself a Beatles fan.
(42:13 - 42:20)
There are some songs that I like, but I'll tell you what, I love Paul McCartney and Wings. Yeah.
I'm a Wings fan.
(42:20 - 42:22)
Oh, yeah. Of course. I liked Wings.
(42:22 - 42:27)
Loved Wings. And I did not care for John Lennon's solo work. No.
(42:28 - 42:34)
I think it was his partner, his writing partner. Well. But I'm with you on that.
(42:34 - 42:39)
His solo work was very, I don't want to say dreary. Avant-garde. Avant-garde.
(42:39 - 42:43)
Almost artsy-fartsy. But it was dark. You know, McCartney was all.
(42:44 - 42:46)
John's music was. Was dark. Was dark.
(42:46 - 42:51)
A lot more dark. Yeah. And, you know, on the flip side, there's McCartney singing silly love
songs.
(42:52 - 42:53)
Yeah. Right. But it was commercial.
(42:53 - 42:55)
That's why it was successful. Right. Right.
(42:55 - 42:57)
Right. Right. But, I mean, gosh.
(42:57 - 43:01)
But, I mean, it's. I mean, do you guys branch off and do any of their solo stuff? A little bit. Yeah.
(43:01 - 43:08)
Yeah. Some of that stuff from Wings, that's not the easiest stuff to learn how to play. What's
your favorite? What's your favorite? One of your favorites.
(43:09 - 43:12)
I think. I think that would be it. Silly love.
(43:12 - 43:15)
Silly. Silly love songs. Great baseline in that too, Greg.
(43:15 - 43:16)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
(43:16 - 43:20)
We've done Maybe I'm Amazed. We've done. Well, I like that song.
(43:20 - 43:25)
I love that song as well. We just recently played Got My Mind Set On You. Oh, yeah.
(43:25 - 43:26)
Live and Let Die. Yeah. Yeah.
(43:26 - 43:29)
We gotta throw that one in one of these plays. Yeah. Yeah.
(43:29 - 43:33)
No kidding. We just recently played It Don't Come Easy, which I really enjoy singing. Yeah.
(43:33 - 43:34)
Yeah. Yeah. No kidding.
(43:34 - 43:35)
Great solo Ringo song. Yeah. Yeah.
(43:35 - 43:36)
Love that one. Yeah. Absolutely.
(43:37 - 43:43)
So speaking of Ringo, so I'm not a drummer. I know enough to get myself in trouble behind a
drum set. Yes.
(43:43 - 44:04)
And I have been known to like as a member of a house band to sit behind a drum set and fill in
because, you know, not a lot of drummers show up at open mics all the time, right? The poor
house band drummer is there for two and a half hours. He just wants to get up and go pee, you
know? So, you know, I know enough to sit back behind a drum set and play really simple things.
Blue on black.
(44:04 - 44:19)
I can play the shit out of blue on black, you know, simple things like that. But I had a drummer
one time walk over to me and he goes, did you teach yourself how to play the drums? And I cut
him off there. No, I've never tried to teach myself how to play the drums.
(44:19 - 44:32)
And he says, no, let me finish by watching Ringo Starr videos. And I was like, no, why? And he
goes, he goes, because you swipe across your hi-hat like a windshield wiper. I didn't even know
Ringo did that.
(44:32 - 44:41)
So I had to go home and put it on a video to see, oh shit, I do that. And so now I purposely do
that because I'm playing like Ringo Starr. I play nothing like Ringo Starr.
(44:42 - 44:49)
I suck. But yeah, Ringo was very known for playing his hi-hat that way. And I am a self-taught
drummer myself.
(44:49 - 45:17)
And I learned exactly by watching Ringo. I learned by watching live footage and listening to
Beatles records. And even as a kid going as far as 12, 13 years old, I would play the hi-hat by
swinging the stick just like that.
(45:17 - 45:29)
And everything that I taught myself how to do as a drummer was by watching Ringo. So I
picked up on all those things that he was doing. Yeah.
(45:29 - 45:38)
Yeah. You know, he was, in my opinion, correct me if I'm wrong, but in my opinion, he wasn't
just playing the drums. I mean, he wasn't just laying down drum tracks.
(45:38 - 45:42)
He was literally writing drum lines. He was writing things. He was a composer.
(45:42 - 45:57)
He was doing things like, you'd hear a song and you'd think, okay, it's really easy to just do a,
you know, one, two, three, four, oom-pah-pah, oom-pah-pah. No, but he decides to do
something completely different because like, because that sounds boring. I'm going to do
something else in there.
(45:58 - 46:25)
What do you think is the most difficult song to learn how to play? There's a lot of great songs
that have great drum parts. There's certain songs that after playing all these years, I still
haven't quite perfected. Rain is a great example of a song with a great drum part.
(46:26 - 46:57)
Good Morning, Good Morning is another song that has a lot of really cool drum fills and
different things Ringo's doing there. There was another song that came to mind, but there's a
lot of- I think Day Tripper sounds like it would be hard to play. Yeah, Day Tripper is another
song that has a lot of iconic rhythms and fills that Ringo was playing there.
(46:57 - 47:15)
You had that really fast four-time fill, and that took me a while to get that right. And that's a fill
that I really have to put all my focus into when we're playing that song. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(47:15 - 47:38)
So what's your story? How did you find yourself in this band? Well, before American English, I
was playing Ringo in a few other Beatles bands. I played with another Beatles tribute band
called Meet the Beatles. I was with them for about seven years or so.
(47:38 - 47:47)
They're the guys who got me started. A shout out to Jim Hondros, if you're listening, we love
you. Yeah.
(47:48 - 48:06)
And I had a lot of great times with that band. They were mostly Indiana based. Every now and
then, we'd play in Illinois, but we also played a lot in Wisconsin, Kentucky.
(48:06 - 48:23)
We played there at Abbey Road on the River a lot. We'd go to Wisconsin, Iowa, a lot of- Well,
Wisconsin has a lot of pretty cool tribute festivals and stuff that go on there and everything.
And Ringo played Slingerland.
(48:23 - 48:28)
Is that what he played? The drums? Ringo mostly played Ludwig's. He did play Ludwig's.
Ludwig's, yeah.
(48:28 - 48:34)
Okay, all right. And same thing, you're trying, you have a Ludwig kick, you set it up just like
Ringo's and all that. Yeah.
(48:34 - 48:45)
I have a few different replica Ringo kits. Okay. The main one that I play is a late 60s super
classic.
(48:45 - 49:00)
It has the same Black Horse of Pearl finish that Ringo's had. And the sizes of those drums are
pretty standard compared to most drum kits made today. The 22 inch bass drum, the 13 inch
tom, 16 inch floor tom.
(49:00 - 49:14)
Yeah. So that's the kit that I mostly use live. And then I also have another kit that I don't gig with
as often.
(49:15 - 49:26)
And that one is an exact replica of the kit that Ringo used on the Ed Sullivan Show. Oh, wow.
That's the more iconic one.
(49:26 - 49:30)
That's the more famous one. But I never- That's not the downbeat, is it? Yeah. That downbeat.
(49:30 - 49:34)
That's the downbeat. Something that you just can't get off the shelf. It's like, yeah, it's like, here,
make this for me.
(49:34 - 49:38)
I need it to look exactly like this kit from the Ed Sullivan Show. Right. Yeah.
(49:39 - 49:58)
That finish isn't, that wrap today isn't made like the original one was. And I had a kit that had a
newer Black Horse of Pearl finish on it, but it wasn't quite the same as the originals. And I
wanted an original one so bad.
(49:59 - 50:23)
So over the years, I pieced one together just looking for the different drums and different
pieces on eBay, Reverb, Craigslist. I was looking for anyone who had pieces that were for sale.
And I finally put together an exact replica of the one he played on the Ed Sullivan Show.
(50:23 - 50:25)
And that one is my baby. Nice. Nice.
(50:26 - 50:38)
I don't like to gig with that one very often just because it's in such great condition. And that
one's my baby, but... You don't want to get it destroyed by the road. Exactly.
(50:39 - 50:43)
I think we all feel that way. I do take it. I do play it at shows.
(50:43 - 50:45)
Like special shows and stuff like that. Yeah. Got it.
(50:45 - 50:50)
Yeah. So it's always fun when I do get to bring that kit out. Nice.
(50:50 - 50:58)
Nice. Yeah. Ringo played quite a few different Ludwig kits over the years.
(50:58 - 51:13)
He had a few different downbeat kits. The one that I have and my favorite one is his second
downbeat kit. He had a few super classic kits that he played.
(51:14 - 51:17)
Made in Chicago. Yeah. That's right.
(51:18 - 51:22)
Yeah. That's right. And Ringo's guitars were made in California.
(51:23 - 51:28)
And Ringo's drums were made right here in Chicago. Right in Chicago. There's always a
connection.
(51:29 - 51:34)
So there you go. Paul McCartney comes and wants to... And Ringo. And Ringo.
(51:34 - 51:35)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
(51:35 - 51:37)
We'll interview both. That's right. Yeah.
(51:37 - 51:52)
Yeah. It just made me think of a kind of a cool story that I, at the time, my wife worked at, my
wife at the time, I should say, worked at Wrigley Field. Okay.
(51:52 - 52:05)
Really? And when Paul was playing, one of the policies, anytime they have an artist there, which
is a relatively new thing, they haven't always done that, just the last 15, 20 years, is they always
give them a jersey. Oh, okay. Right.
(52:05 - 52:12)
And I thought, oh man, wouldn't it be cool if he actually wore a Cubs jersey? He didn't. Yeah.
But they always make you one.
(52:12 - 52:17)
It's just their policy. Right. So I told her, I said, you go down to that, wherever they do it.
(52:17 - 52:27)
I said, and tell the person making them, I want the same size, the same design, back to back. I
want them touching, if possible. Right.
(52:27 - 52:36)
Yeah. So I want to know that that day, one of them went to Paul, and one of them went to me. I
had the only one.
(52:36 - 52:46)
I gave it away to a good friend of mine, because he's a bigger McCartney fan, and he loves the
Cubs. So I gave it as a gift. But there was only two jerseys sold or made that day.
(52:46 - 52:55)
Paul has one, and I've got one, or I had one. Then he followed Paul around for a month and
waited for him to put it on, and then he jumped him and knocked it out and stole it. That's how
he got the original.
(52:56 - 52:59)
That's a pretty serious flex. Really. That's incredible.
(53:00 - 53:16)
So when you guys aren't playing Beatles songs, when you guys aren't American English, what
else are you listening to? Well, I am a Beach Boys fanatic. Okay. You know, any of that stuff, I
am a firm believer that Brian Wilson- Rest in peace.
(53:16 - 53:24)
Rest in peace, Brian Wilson. That one tore me up real bad when he passed. But I am a firm
believer that he is one of the greatest composers of the 20th century, if not of all time.
(53:25 - 53:36)
I'm a huge Van Halen fan. The typical blues stuff, big into Stevie Ray Vaughan, Flapton. But
Beach Boys, to me, is where it's at, outside of Beatles.
(53:38 - 53:52)
Anybody else? Well, I kind of cut my teeth on Elvis music in the 50s, like Elvis, Chuck Berry, Little
Richard. I was obsessed with 50s music, particularly Elvis. But that led me to the Beatles.
(53:53 - 53:58)
It was just such a natural progression. My favorite kind of music to play. Is it really? Yeah, it
really is.
(53:58 - 54:05)
Yeah. I am a better vocalist and better guitar player when I'm playing some Elvis or some Jerry
Lee Lewis. That's what I do.
(54:05 - 54:22)
If I'm playing with another band or moonlighting, doing something else, it's often. And I've got
an affinity, I've grown to love 60s through 80s country. I've become a huge Waylon Jennings
guy and George Jones and Johnny Cash.
(54:23 - 54:30)
I realized I had a voice for it that I didn't know I had. I've been singing Beatles and stuff my
whole life. We were separated at birth.
(54:30 - 54:31)
Yeah. All right. Yeah.
(54:32 - 54:35)
Cool. It's time for a jam, Mike. We've got to get it going.
(54:36 - 54:47)
That's right. Who are you listening to? Outside of Beatles, I like to appreciate all kinds of music
and all different types of bands. Love the Beach Boys.
(54:47 - 55:02)
Of course, also love Elvis, Little Richard, all the different, all the bands that inspired the Beatles.
OK. Of course, I've grown to appreciate as well.
(55:02 - 55:13)
And I like to listen to a lot of different bands from the 60s. The Byrds is another example. Tom
Petty.
(55:14 - 55:22)
Yeah. Oh, nice. I like listening to music from the 60s, 70s, 80s, some music from today.
(55:23 - 55:33)
I like blues, jazz. I try to appreciate just about everything. Well, I'll tell you what, I think it's time
to get warm.
(55:33 - 55:41)
I think what we're going to do before we do this, I mean, if people don't know how to find you,
they're living under a rock. Yeah. But but but but yeah.
(55:41 - 55:51)
How can people find you? What are your media outlets in the whole bit? Well, you can find us
on Facebook at American English Beatles Tribute. You can find us at American English dot com,
if that's correct. Right.
(55:52 - 55:59)
And we're on Instagram, too, although we're not as active on Instagram yet. We're getting
there. I believe that's America.
(55:59 - 56:04)
What is that? Amerang. Amerang Beatles. A-M-E-R-E-N-G.
(56:04 - 56:07)
Yeah. Yeah. But we're mostly active on Facebook.
(56:07 - 56:09)
Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, I'll tell you what we're going to do.
(56:09 - 56:15)
I think we're all set up and everything. And it's it's kind of time to sign off. Why don't you guys
want to sing us out? Sing us off the Buffalo.
(56:22 - 56:28)
I've just seen a face. I can't forget the time or place that we just met. She's just a girl for me.
(56:28 - 56:49)
And I want all the world to know. I've just seen a face. I can't forget the time or place that we
just met.
(56:51 - 56:54)
She's just a girl for me. I've just seen a face. She's just a girl for me.
(56:54 - 56:58)
And I want all the world to know. I've just seen a face. I've just seen a face.
(56:58 - 57:00)
I can't forget the time or place that we just met. She's just a girl for me. And I want all the world
to know.
(57:00 - 57:14)
I've just seen a face. I can't forget the time or place that we just met. She's just a girl for me.
(57:17 - 57:22)
And I want all the world to know. I've just seen a face. She's just a girl for me.
(57:23 - 57:32)
And I want all the world to know. I've just seen a face. She's just a girl for me.
(57:33 - 57:41)
And I want all the world to know. I've just seen a face. I've just seen a face.
(57:41 - 57:44)
I can't forget the time or place that we just met. She's just a girl for me. I've just seen a face.
(57:45 - 57:48)
She's just a girl for me. And I want all the world to know.